[Durandal]

JoBec JoBec:

5 year ban on immigration ... we need a break ! we need to regroup and think what kind of Quebec we want . Immigration has pushed us to the limits, too much , too fast ... and we need to breath !!!

Look !! No Farouk , no Azizz , no Shlomo , no N’goudno is gonna a tell me whether I can have a Christmas tree or not at my workplace or on my frontyard ! No fuck’n way !

I'd vote for you.

[Bacardi4206]

mapleleafsnation mapleleafsnation:

Don't you think you are over-generalizing? I know a lot of Muslims who really don't give anything about most things related to their religion in public.

Actually I have yet to meet a single immigrant who wants to impose his culture outside of his private space (house/shop).

Yes we have a prayer room at my school. But any student can request to have a room if he/she reserves it before. Heck students reserve classroom that have projectors and play videogames...

Sikhs are a minority in the muslim world and even a bigger minority in Quebec. In many cases they adapt and agree not to bring it to school. However the smaller kirpans blade length is legal to carry on the streets in Canada.

Every now and then you hear an immigrant complaining and being irrational. But don't tell me you never heard a woman (or man) at a registry being all irrational over the cashier and screaming to get his/her manager.

People also seem to think that immigrants will brainwash us and change our culture. I wouldn't be too scared of that, I don't see too many white, middle class Canadians converting to Islam.

I don't know if you noticed but currently Canada is surounded by Immigration. Which is fine and all, if you peek your head out of your door 4 years ago then peek it out today. You will see a big culture change, there always will be a culture change in Canada. That is what Canada is all about, adopting other cultures and integrating them in our country. Christian's turn Muslim, Muslim's turn Christian, etc.

I am perfectly fine with all that, however it is when other religions and society try to change ours that I am not fine with. Which as happened and will continously do so.

For instance, years ago you could walk into a mall and all you could do there is go to the Bathroom and wash your hands. Now, you do all that plus you have foot baths for religious purposes.

That wasn't a highlight for me to have happen, I would rather have religion happen where it is suppose to happen. In there private homes, and in there temples, mosques and churches. Not in public areas, however it is completly manageable.

However when we are told we are not allowed to bring Christmas trees into work, or wherever and I believe at one time people attempted to shut down Christmas (Obviously failed) is what is not acceptable. Not just for Christmas, but for everything. All religions. As for Law, we have one way of doing things in Canada and that is our way and it's staying. It doesn't matter what law they use to have in there old country, they require to adopt our system and laws by moving to our country. It is not acceptable in my opinion to change that. For example, I saw a previous post about Islam allowing incest only when they are distant relitives like cousins. Whatever they want to have has there laws in there country is fine by me but I would rather not have that law adopted in Canada. I also want to keep women with rights.

I am not saying that the majority of immagration are trying to change the country, although some have attempted. As immagration gets bigger, and bigger. They start to become the majority in population and say and I think previous actions have proved that when it comes to religion. It doesn't matter what country you are from, they all stick to it.

If Muslims become a majority in the country's population, and let's say that them and Christians have been clashing religous wise and they start to really hate Christianity. Being a majority, I am sure they would do something regarding that if they got enough people involved and I am sure they would. Not saying it will happen, just putting it as a example.

Also obviously all these country's are having population boom's, expecially Asia. Why can't Canadians do the same? Stop relying on immigration for new citizens, and rely on the current citizens to turn on Funky Corn and get to buisness.

[Benoit]

JoBec JoBec:

This is my home , my Quebec. I want my kids to live in a nice and safe environment. Over the last few years , immigration has brought us many gangsters-to-be and very few engineers…. So let’s all take a break and think !!

Montreal is already doomed , finished , a sh**hole , a violent and unsafe city where 8 year-olds
are terrorized at school by street-gang immigrants. No surprise “ City Living “ has 2 Montreal neighborhoods among the most dangerous in the world.

Good night , JoBec

Montreal is at the top of all cities in the world in part because of all its engineering schools filled foreign students. Bye! Bye!

[fire_i]

mapleleafsnation : I agree on (almost) all the line. Three cheers.

Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:

The ''Accommodements Raisonables'' brought by Mario Dumont was actually a good concept. It's not the exposure, or lack thereof, to other cultures. Rather what is considered reasonable for new immigrants coming to Quebec.

Huh Pimp, ARs are a legal concept that exists since decades. Mario Dumont didn't "bring" them, at best he "brought them up". And then the media did an awful job at presenting them, because easily 80% of all the weird situations they presented aren't even ARs.

As for deciding what is reasonable and what isn't, that's what ARs are for - it's unfortunate events like the YMCA and sugar shack incident, which have absolutely nothing to do with them, were assimilated to ARs because people are ignorant and the media would lead them where they wanted like a pack of sheep. I am convinced that had those situations been brough up in court under the AR legislation, we'd never even have heard of them because the court would (in the YMCA case) have sided with the YMCA and (in the sugar shack case) would have said it's up to the owner of the shack to decide what is up on his menu and whether or not he kicks people out to let muslims pray, because it's his establishment and he decides what's to be done over there, in the limits of legality. When I hear people say we should make laws on sugar shacks to define what has to be done there, I tear my hair off by handfuls. If it's not a matter of maintenance or some such, nothing should be imposed on owners of a building, whatever its nature!

$1:

If they want the same as ''their old culture'' and they don't seem to like our ways, then it's as simple as to say that they are free to go back to their Motherland. A little harsh I know, but......

To an extent.

Immigrants need to adapt, but "locals" need to accept. Anyway, among immigrants, is the 1st generation all that important? Not really. Their children will adapt with time - often as soon as the 2nd generation, in like 97% of the cases. And that's what counts.

To me, the 1st generation doesn't need to be assimilated - just integrated. You want to avoid ghettoisation - you want them to live among "pur laines" (a term I hate) just as much as among other immigrants. That requires efforts from both parties : the immigrant, if it's not already the case, will have, for example, to accept men and women are to be considered equal, to learn acceptable French (in Quebec at least), to respect sexual diversity... the basics, really. On the other hand, we can't expect them to drop everything from their culture, so if they want to go around the streets wearing a dull kirpan sewed in its case (that's all that's allowed in schools nowadays - c'mon, at that point it's less dangerous than a compass), or to wear a veil when they go buy their Poule aux Oeufs d'Or at the convenience store, I don't see why we'd stop them. Anyway, we know that if they're well-integrated, almost all of their children will feel just as Canadian/Québécois as we possibly could want them to, and they'd be raised within our own customs and values, too. Isn't that ideal? It sure is.

And that goes without saying genes blending makes tougher people, so amusingly enough immigration (if you disregard social conditions of immigrants and their descendants, which I don't know enough about) probably reduces the strain on the healthcare system. Weird thing to say I know, but in theory it's true.

$1:

How would it seem for a Canadian to travel abroad, let's say the Middle East, and impose their culture over there. Please tell me what the response would be Confused They simply could not. So why should we have to bend over backwards to accomodate theirs.

That's a poor example. If nobody accepts to eventually extend a hand, immigration will always be problematic. Saying we don't have to because nobody else did is, well, dumb.

Think of a hypothetical situation : "Why would we give women the right to vote? Nobody else has."

Sure, can't give immigrants everything they want, but if we put the entire weight of integration to our culture on their shoulders, some/many will ghettoise, and then we'll be France 2. It's a matter of reciprocical action.

$1:

So basically, there is a point to where we must say enough. Adapt or else. Therefore, this whole accomodation issue in Quebec is a good one.

I'm inclined to agree : the point is to know where to put the line. It's unfortunate how the whole issue turned in a mess, however, due a lot to awful media coverage and political opportunism - along with ignorance. I bet 95% of the population can't even tell ARs actually are legal dispositions, and that even more would say the YMCA event, which is probably the most well-known case of the "AR crisis", is an AR, whereas it is not.

JoBec JoBec:

50,000 new immigrants every year in Quebec, 99% of them in Montreal. This city has become a hell hole and 2 of their neighbourhoods are among the most dangerous according to a recent world survey from the “ City Living “ magazine.

1 - Hillbrow , Johannesburg , South Africa
2 - Badawa , Lagos , Nigeria
3 - Little Burgundy, Montreal, Quebec
4 - The city, Kinshasa , Congo ( formely Zaire )
5 - Verdun , Montreal , Quebec


I think the Quebec government should put a 5 year ban on immigration. Anyway who needs PHD’s from Ouagadagou University ?

I call bullshit!

Just how ludicrous can this magazine be? Just take a second to think and you'll realize it's simply not possible Montreal is such a dangerous place. Unless the magazine analyzed like 5 cities and made a top 5 with that... the Readers' Digest does it all the time, so an even crappier magazine probably does it, too.

Also. 99% to Montreal? Not too far off reality, though an exaggeration. But why ban immigration for that, instead of making the rest of the province more attractive, or in the worst of situations, forcing immigrants not to go to Montreal?

You're right on one thing, still : as we all should know, the best way for an immigrant to integrate is to live among the "main" culture nearly at all times, something that is much easier to achieve outside Montreal since this city does have a few ghettos.

And let me tell you who needs a PhD from Ougadougou : WE do. We need working arms. We need people. 1) Most won't have studied in Ouagadougou, but rather in Paris or Bucarest - way more trustable to begin with 2) even if the guy studied in Ouagadougou, it remains a freaking university! You don't want him to end up in a street gang or as a street sweeper? Recognize his freaking diploma, and give up a short class to update his knowledge if need be - don't have him go through 7 years of school again! Heck, what we're doing right now is asking then if they have a diploma, bringing them in if they do, then refusing to acknowledge the diploma, and THAT is why many immigrants end up with crappy jobs or no job at all (along with ignorant stereotypes, stupid bias and generalizations).

But really. Ban immigration. Are you serious? That would be the most stupid move I've ever seen. Our working population would start decreasing immediately - it's already bad enough it'll start to around 2015-2020! Way to deliver us a finishing blow! Ridiculous.

$1:

5 year ban on immigration ….we need a break ! we need to regroup and think what kind of Quebec we want . Immigration has pushed us to the limits, too much , too fast ….and we need to breath !!!

Look !! No Farouk , no Azizz , no Shlomo ,no N’goudno is gonna a tell me whether I can have a Christmas tree or not at my workplace or on my frontyard ! No fuck’n way !

This is my home , my Quebec. I want my kids to live in a nice and safe environment. Over the last few years , immigration has brought us many gangsters-to-be and very few engineers…. So let’s all take a break and think !!

Montreal is already doomed , finished , a sh**hole , a violent and unsafe city where 8 year-olds
are terrorized at school by street-gang immigrants. No surprise “ City Living “ has 2 Montreal neighborhoods among the most dangerous in the world.

Good night , JoBec

Breathe? Yeah right, ban immigration for 5 years, draw the ire of the entire international community along with the rest of Canada and rush us into a horrible economic situation. If you call that breathing...

And 99.9% of all the Fazoukachik Mouhamaddin's don't give a crap about your christmas tree, yet you listen to the 0.1%. Learn to say "no" without hiding behind stupid legislation and hating tons of people for the actions of a tiny minority, then we'll talk again.

And really? Montreal is that unsafe? Why, go spend some time in Grozny. Or... in Toronto. Or the US. Montreal is average, at worst, among cities of its size when it comes to security. Sure it has its issues, but so does every other city of its size. Look out the window, there's no terrorist to kill you out there. You can get out of your house, you know. The evil bad guys won't be waiting to slay you.

Strange, but I think that if Verdun was so dangerous, I think I'd have heard of it once or twice before, no? But I haven't! Ever! Again, I call bullshit. Get info from trustable sources. Not crappy pop magazines.

[Benoit]

fire_i fire_i:

I am convinced that had those situations been brough up in court under the AR legislation, we'd never even have heard of them because the court would (in the YMCA case) have sided with the YMCA

The media have a unique way to make money with sex, that’s why the YMCA has had all sort of problems to accommodate its neighbor families with adolescent boys in them. Mass media are echo chambers.

[JoBec]

Fire_i :

the article was about dangerous neighborhoods not about cities. The female journalist visited about 20 places and those were her conclusions. That’s what she said about Verdun ( Wellington Street )

Roving bands of teens have taken matters into their own hands . They mug, they steal, they take whatever they can get and they fear no consequences.

Immigration in Quebec.


Quebec is expected to receive about 49,000 immigrants in 2008. About 28,800 are supposed to be “skilled workers” . Many of them won’t have their “Ougadougou “ diploma recognized . Not my problem if Tunisian colleges teach computer languages that we dropped here 20 years ago. But I want to be sure that the mechanic from Ivory Coast has seen a car before he works on my brakes. Others will lack the necessary “Quebec/Canadian experience” . So more cab drivers with PHD’s . And more frustrated and arrogant customer service reps for Videotron, Bell Canada and Mastercard.

Another 1900 are supposely “ business immigrants “; probably a few shops and a couple of new Vietnamese restaurants on their way but not much there.

The rest is split between immigrants joining family members, refugees etc etc … Montreal ghettos just getting bigger, more accommodations to make, more crime and more problems.

I want my boy to be able to go to school without being constantly bothered by Bosnian thugs. I don’t want my daughter’s soccer game to be cancelled because some girls want to wear hijabs. I don’t want the windows of my car smashed just because I forgot to put it in the garage . Is it too much to ask ?

And if I prefer my neighbour’s first name to be Bernard or Bob instead of Youssouf or Zozef, that’s my dam problem … Geezzz I’m home here in Quebec after all.

Cheers , JoBec

[BartSimpson]

Durandal Durandal:

JoBec JoBec:

5 year ban on immigration ... we need a break ! we need to regroup and think what kind of Quebec we want . Immigration has pushed us to the limits, too much , too fast ... and we need to breath !!!

Look !! No Farouk , no Azizz , no Shlomo , no N’goudno is gonna a tell me whether I can have a Christmas tree or not at my workplace or on my frontyard ! No fuck’n way !

I'd vote for you.

I'd vote for him twice.

[fire_i]

JoBec JoBec:

Fire_i :

the article was about dangerous neighborhoods not about cities. The female journalist visited about 20 places and those were her conclusions. That’s what she said about Verdun ( Wellington Street )

I know it was neighborhoods, but those have to be in cities, no?

Tsk tsk - 20? No doubt, that "study" is lacking.

$1:

Roving bands of teens have taken matters into their own hands . They mug, they steal, they take whatever they can get and they fear no consequences.

Immigration in Quebec.

You are aware that these bands form in poorer areas (and therefore, often ghettos), and that a well-integrated immigrant's son wouldn't become member of one, right? You are also aware that those bands also form where there are no immigrants, but poor "pure laines", no?

$1:

Quebec is expected to receive about 49,000 immigrants in 2008. About 28,800 are supposed to be “skilled workers” . Many of them won’t have their “Ougadougou “ diploma recognized

And that is the problem

$1:

Not my problem if Tunisian colleges teach computer languages that we dropped here 20 years ago.

Two questions

1) Where did you get that from
2) Do we get Tunisian immigrants who have been accepted because they know a dead computer language at all?

$1:

But I want to be sure that the mechanic from Ivory Coast has seen a car before he works on my brakes.

If he's got his diplomas, he's seen a car. Also, there's a 99.9% chance he's not from Ivory Coast, but, say, Romania - most immigrants come from countries that are at least somewhat trustable, keep in mind.

$1:

Others will lack the necessary “Quebec/Canadian experience”.

One would have to ask what kind of skill one is supposed to obtain from "Quebec/Canada experience", something that, anyway, is made harder to get for immigrants since we close doors in their face claiming they can't know enough of Quebec/Canada to be as good as a local! A catch 22 that hurts everyone in the long run.

$1:

So more cab drivers with PHD’s . And more frustrated and arrogant customer service reps for Videotron, Bell Canada and Mastercard.

... even though many would make good doctors.

$1:

Another 1900 are supposely “ business immigrants “; probably a few shops and a couple of new Vietnamese restaurants on their way but not much there.

Rather than a McDonals's and other few shops. All the same to me. We certainly won't be able to attract every entrepreneur with the ability to create the next Power Corporation in our country, so we'd better just satisfy ourselves with those who can open an equivalent to La Belle Province, or a shop that sells woodwinds.

$1:

The rest is split between immigrants joining family members, refugees etc etc … Montreal ghettos just getting bigger

Hence why we ought to make it so more immigrants join the regions and Quebec City rather than Montreal

$1:

more accommodations to make

Reasonable accomodation is always good and there's no reason to complain about it, unreasonable accomodation basically doesn't happen, ignorant people who pander to the few extremists out of fear of being sued should grow balls and learn to stand up by themselves instead of hiding behind xenophobic generalizations and laws (anyway they'd win such a prosecution anyway, because you'll notice extremists basically see all their demands rejected when they go to court... those that aren't rejected pretty much always had a reasonable basis, barring an infinitesimal amount of unreasonable demands that benefit from jurisprudence, something that can however easily be fixed by favoring case-by-case approach to jurisprudence when it comes to ARs).

$1:

more crime and more problems.

So let's create an even bigger problem by banning immigration and decimating the work force instead of avoiding both types of problems by improving integration and favoring 2nd+ generation immigrants? Yeah way to go.

$1:

I want my boy to be able to go to school without being constantly bothered by Bosnian thugs. I don’t want my daughter’s soccer game to be cancelled because some girls want to wear hijabs. I don’t want the windows of my car smashed just because I forgot to put it in the garage . Is it too much to ask ?

All these things happened to you rather than being isolated events? Wow, you're a tough one. Wonders how you can still be alive.

$1:

And if I prefer my neighbour’s first name to be Bernard or Bob instead of Youssouf or Zozef, that’s my dam problem … Geezzz I’m home here in Quebec after all.

And it's also his damn problem if he'd rather you be called Muhammed or Bobouchka, yet I don't think he's going to make a fuss for that. I'd even remind you that once he moved... he's home here in Quebec after all, too. And it's not because one in fifty is an idiot who can't accept to change the slightest bit that we should turn 50k people a year back home while we desperately need them.

[Pimpbrewski]

Oh well, my previous post was kind of written in a bit of a hurry, still. As long as the overall point is made, that's what is important.

As far as Mario Dumont, no he did invent the ''Reasonable Accommodation'' issue. But he sure was not afraid to speak up a few years ago, while Boisclair and Charest were too scared of take either sides, or taking a stand. I admired Dumont for standing up. That's basically what I meant to say.

As far as the other issues, I stand by what I have said previously. The fact that an immigrant comes to a new country, in this case, Canada. And has the audacity to impose his/her own set of rules..... That I have a really big problem with.

As we have spoken before Firei, you have the right to your opinion, and it's alright to disagree

Let's see, without being repetitive with the Kirpans, turbans, and so forth. But those are great examples why a good majority of Quebecers do not want for this to go too far. Without generalizing on behalf of Quebecers, but there is a good majority that are fed up. So I tend to agree with JoeBec on this one.

I am no history expert, but the immigration today is completely different from the 1st wave of immigrants back some 400 years ago. The old immigrants being from Europe and wanted to work hard to build a better life. Whereas today its from some uncivilized nations and they bring such a different values and cultures. For some Muslims, they even despise our values (Western Civilization). Yet Canada being too tolerant, still lets these (insert word here ) into our country.

As for the Sugar Shack owner, yes, it was his decision to allow Muslims, but at the same time, it pissed off a lot of locals. My money is on the locals contributing much more to the sugar shack's (as a whole) economy than only a few Muslim families. So it is to the owner's best interest to adhere to the locals.

Also, as for immigrants to adapt. It is my view that we were here 1st. We have established our own set of values over a long period of time. It is best for the newcomers to ''adapt''. We, as true Quebecers, don't have to change a thing. But when there is a media story, yes it can be biased at times, still when there is an immigrants trying to impose his/her own set of values, we have to stand up and say enough of this sh*t. If we let this escalate, sooner or later, they will slowly take over. I have to agree with GFPB on another thread. So if you see, the 'ol European immigration was so much better than what Canada is getting right now.

There needs to be a major overhaul on Canada's immigration policies. Anyways, without sounding too harsh, it is what it is.

[kenmore]

Im all for banning immigration... now ! I love Quebec ... the only Provence with balls...

[mtbr]

kenmore kenmore:

Im all for banning immigration... now ! I love Quebec ... the only Provence with balls...

Could you imagine the accusations of "redneck racists" if Alberta had done it....

[Knoss]

$1:

Most immigrants I know are at the head of their classes. And peer-reviewed studies support the fact that the kids of immigrants are way more successful than 'white middle class Canadians'.

Too many, Canada needs more blue collar immagrants.

[Knoss]

$1:

5 year ban on immigration ... we need a break ! we need to regroup and think what kind of Quebec we want . Immigration has pushed us to the limits, too much , too fast ... and we need to breath !!!

Look !! No Farouk , no Azizz , no Shlomo , no N’goudno is gonna a tell me whether I can have a Christmas tree or not at my workplace or on my frontyard ! No fuck’n way !

Yeah God forbid you have to celebrate Chistmas like Mr. Schultz, Ms. Krause, Mrs. Knudson...

[Benoit]

JoBec JoBec:

Fire_i :

the article was about dangerous neighborhoods not about cities. The female journalist visited about 20 places and those were her conclusions. That’s what she said about Verdun ( Wellington Street )

Roving bands of teens have taken matters into their own hands . They mug, they steal, they take whatever they can get and they fear no consequences.

Immigration in Quebec.


Quebec is expected to receive about 49,000 immigrants in 2008. About 28,800 are supposed to be “skilled workers” . Many of them won’t have their “Ougadougou “ diploma recognized . Not my problem if Tunisian colleges teach computer languages that we dropped here 20 years ago. But I want to be sure that the mechanic from Ivory Coast has seen a car before he works on my brakes. Others will lack the necessary “Quebec/Canadian experience” . So more cab drivers with PHD’s . And more frustrated and arrogant customer service reps for Videotron, Bell Canada and Mastercard.

Another 1900 are supposely “ business immigrants “; probably a few shops and a couple of new Vietnamese restaurants on their way but not much there.

The rest is split between immigrants joining family members, refugees etc etc … Montreal ghettos just getting bigger, more accommodations to make, more crime and more problems.

I want my boy to be able to go to school without being constantly bothered by Bosnian thugs. I don’t want my daughter’s soccer game to be cancelled because some girls want to wear hijabs. I don’t want the windows of my car smashed just because I forgot to put it in the garage . Is it too much to ask ?

And if I prefer my neighbour’s first name to be Bernard or Bob instead of Youssouf or Zozef, that’s my dam problem … Geezzz I’m home here in Quebec after all.

Cheers , JoBec

With Jobec' posts, we have still much more evidences that stupidities and harassments are not proper to Quebec new immigrants.

[kenmore]

all provinces need to do it... Canada is being pillaged...