[Gunnair]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Combatants who resort to cowardly acts, like the setting of IEDs, have no just claim to protection under the articles of civilized warfare.

I'm curious here...

Outside of the obvious dollar figure, technological sophistication, and training required, what would you say is the moral difference between blowing up a military vehicle with an IED or blowing up a combatant vehicle with a Hellfire missile fired from a Predator?

Hellfire missiles are created by trained professionals, legally, and are fired by trained persons who are held accountable for their actions.

IEDs are created by semi experienced individuals and due to the conditions they are created in put their lives as well as the lives in other in jeopardy. Components are fabricated using dangerous and illegal techniques or bought on the black market which supports organized crime. Depending on the deployment they are either indiscriminate in who they target (some one unlucky enough to take the wrong road) or are fired by a person with the sole purpose attacking and leaving so that they are never seen or found.

So... you'd say they're more like landmines then? Which are still used by several countries... legally.

[saturn_656]

Gunnair Gunnair:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

raydan raydan:

I have 2 questions then.

Why did these soldiers do this?
What message was this supposed to convey?

I don't think the message is any more complex than "pwned".

Huh.

Well, I wonder if they considered the macro view of peeing on dead combatants? You know, how this will affect the overall strategy when you antagonize the political leadership of the country you're there to help by pissing on its dead citizens. I'd say that that in itself probably wouldn't do much but when you are also regularly killing non-combatants with badly aimed bombs and missiles, I'd say there are a few of America's senior military leaders saying,

"Thanks, boys... just thanks for that."

The Taliban at this point are insurgents, not good peaceful citizens of Afghanistan. Many fighters are not even Afghan but are imports from Pakistan.

How do you know these three were even Afghan?

Karzai may bitch and moan for public consumption, but the those Taliban likely would have happily stood Karzai on his knees and chopped his damn head off on camera. In reality, I'm sure he could not care less.

[Gunnair]

Yeah... that went over your head. Sorry for that.

I restated my point in another post which you may chose or choose not to respond.

[saturn_656]

$1:

Yeah... that went over your head. Sorry for that.

Not quite. I just don't agree with you.

No reason to turn turn it into some pissing match.

[Gunnair]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

$1:

Yeah... that went over your head. Sorry for that.

Not quite. I just don't agree with you.

No reason to turn turn it into some pissing match.

It's more of a bunfight than a pissing contest.

You're right of course, so I apologize.

[Lemmy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Outside of the obvious dollar figure, technological sophistication, and training required, what would you say is the moral difference between blowing up a military vehicle with an IED or blowing up a combatant vehicle with a Hellfire missile fired from a Predator?

None, I suppose, except just of cause.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Outside of the obvious dollar figure, technological sophistication, and training required, what would you say is the moral difference between blowing up a military vehicle with an IED or blowing up a combatant vehicle with a Hellfire missile fired from a Predator?

None, I suppose, except just of cause.

Since just cause is completely subjective, I think I stick with none.

[Lemmy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Since just cause is completely subjective, I think I stick with none.

You make a compelling argument. But I'm still not outraged at pissed-on Taliban. Sorry. They could easily avoid being pissed on by putting down the guns and the Qurans and joining the 21st century.

[Public_Domain]

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Since just cause is completely subjective, I think I stick with none.

You make a compelling argument. But I'm still not outraged at pissed-on Taliban. Sorry. They could easily avoid being pissed on by putting down the guns and the Qurans and joining the 21st century.

Well, I'm not overly outraged either, as I said, I get the reason why - adrenalin and survival are very powerful intoxicants that can spin your moral compass about.

However, I am disappointed in a number of the reactions that are tending towards cheerleading vice holding these guys responsible for the dangers that their one stupid act may cause to other allied soldiers as they futher alienate the allies with their idiocy.

We may understand why they did it, but in the end if we think it's wrong, then say its wrong and stop making excuses for it.

[Lemmy]

peck420 peck420:

I imagine that the things our forces have done behind closed doors will rival acid in the face any day of the week. In fact, I am 100% sure that we have found far more insidious ways of inflicting pain. And that would be government sanctioned actions, not individual on individual actions.

Which is one reason why our forces shouldn't be there. But they are.

peck420 peck420:

Overall, This is a joke. If we think this is okay, what are we fighting for? We are 'supposed' to stand for freedom, morality, civility, and dignity. These specific troops and those defending them have exhibited none of those traits. If that's what it would take to win in a book, I would rather loose{sic}.

Forgive the metaphor. If you want to take the vegetarian position, great, it's reasonable and I respect it. But you don't get to eat steak and take the moral high ground on animal rights at the same time. War is war. Playing it any way other than full-out is a recipe for loss. If we haven't the appetite for pissed-on Taliban, then we need to get the fuck out and let the Taliban go about their business. But for now, it's war and the Taliban can end it any time they choose. Until then, fuck 'em.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

peck420 peck420:

I imagine that the things our forces have done behind closed doors will rival acid in the face any day of the week. In fact, I am 100% sure that we have found far more insidious ways of inflicting pain. And that would be government sanctioned actions, not individual on individual actions.

Which is one reason why our forces shouldn't be there. But they are.

peck420 peck420:

Overall, This is a joke. If we think this is okay, what are we fighting for? We are 'supposed' to stand for freedom, morality, civility, and dignity. These specific troops and those defending them have exhibited none of those traits. If that's what it would take to win in a book, I would rather loose{sic}.

Forgive the metaphor. If you want to take the vegetarian position, great, it's reasonable and I respect it. But you don't get to eat steak and take the moral high ground on animal rights at the same time. War is war. Playing it any way other than full-out is a recipe for loss. If we haven't the appetite for pissed-on Taliban, then we need to get the fuck out and let the Taliban go about their business. But for now, it's war and the Taliban can end it any time they choose. Until then, fuck 'em.

Fair enough.

The obvious point is that on the Taliban Kicks Ass forums where Lemmy Khan is posting, you should agree with his post as well...

$1:

War is war. Playing it any way other than full-out is a recipe for loss. If we haven't the appetite for taking ears off Frenchman, then we need to get the fuck out and let Karzai go about his business. But for now, it's war and NATO can end it any time they choose. Until then, fuck 'em.

[Lemmy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Fair enough. The obvious point is that on the Taliban Kicks Ass forums where Lemmy Khan is posting, you should agree with his post as well...

$1:

War is war. Playing it any way other than full-out is a recipe for loss. If we haven't the appetite for taking ears off Frenchman, then we need to get the fuck out and let Karzai go about his business. But for now, it's war and NATO can end it any time they choose. Until then, fuck 'em.

I'd make that concession except that there is no Taliban Kicks Ass. The Taliban are too busy living in caves, barbarizing women and praying to Allah (generally enjoying life in the 12th century) to form anything resembling a 21st century perspective on war, dignity or philosophy of any kind.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Fair enough. The obvious point is that on the Taliban Kicks Ass forums where Lemmy Khan is posting, you should agree with his post as well...

$1:

War is war. Playing it any way other than full-out is a recipe for loss. If we haven't the appetite for taking ears off Frenchman, then we need to get the fuck out and let Karzai go about his business. But for now, it's war and NATO can end it any time they choose. Until then, fuck 'em.

I'd make that concession except that there is no Taliban Kicks Ass. The Taliban are too busy living in caves, barbarizing women and praying to Allah (generally enjoying life in the 12th century) to form anything resembling a 21st century perspective on war, dignity or philosophy of any kind.

21st century dignity and philosophy... in a thread about marines peeing on corpses.

Oh... okay, Lemmy.

[Lemmy]

I'm still a pacifist. "Best defense, not be there" - Mr. Miyagi