[Yank-in-NY]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Well…I certainly know more than you, but hey, demonstrate how I was wrong rather than playing the banal patronizing card. If not, read a book and quit whining about your ignorance.

Oh, you know more than me. Well that settles that ego trip.

Mustang1 Mustang1:

You likely didn’t know about the U.S. residential schools (and I noticed you conveniently dodged the objective fact that U.S. government has historically targeted Natives for extermination, not Canada)

I didn't dodge anything, last I checked we were talking about Canada. But of course we can't talk about Canada unless we inject a US comparison, how much more evil we were in the US, hence Canada gets a pass.

Attempted US extermination of the native population is no secret.

Mustang1 Mustang1:

and secondly demonstrate, with tangible, verifiable evidence that the FEDERAL CANADIAN government systemically and consciously EXTERMINATED Natives!

One does not forcibly continue placing children, for decades, into conditions that lead to their deaths if it is not systemic and deliberate. Seems to me unless you see a document that's marked "Exterminate the Natives" as its heading, you'll keep your head in the sand.

The British Empire did the same thing in Australia and India, what makes you think they would be any different in Canada?

[themasta]

$1:

Sovereignty: The final or ultimate power over a population and a piece of territory, commonly claimed by the government of a state. In other contexts, sovereignty can be said to reside in the people or in parliament; in all cases, however, it has probably been eroded by global forces.

Using this definition (others are similar) the Indians are not sovereign. The "First Nation" is hardly a cohesive entity. West Coast Indians are as different to East Coast Indians as Chinese are to Germans. A key aspect of sovereignty is a population and a territory, in that respect, Indians are gaining more of both (to anyone paying attention, deny Indians their supposed "land" and we deny them their sovereignty, why do you think this is such a big deal?). However, Indian government has been notoriously ineffective at dealing with the problems of their electorate. In fact, many elections for band councils are run with federal money. A comparison would be asking the U.S. to fund our next election. Does a sovereign nation need handouts from another sovereign nation? As far as Indian sovereignty goes, they are slowly making their way there and I have no doubt that against my wishes, they will eventually become sovereign. However, this cannot be achieved so long as the government continues to pump money into the Department of Indian Affairs. No reserves, no funding, nothing. If they wish to create a sovereign nation, they can do it without the money of the nation they wish to destroy. Canada has to stop worrying about its "nice" image internationally and realize what there is to lose should things continue the way they are. A sovereign First Nation backed by Canadian dollars and a sovereign Quebec also backed by Canadian dollars. Where does that leave us? Quebec separation and Indian agitation needs to be crushed lest we find ourselves in a country eroded not by global forces, but by forces within attempting to become global.

[Mustang1]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

Oh, you know more than me.

About history? Yep, but that’s no feat really as you know very little.

$1:

“Well that settles that ego trip”

No ego trip, my delusional little chump, but thanks for playing. Unless you want to demonstrate my historical mistakes, than it’s not about ego, it’s about fact. Next

$1:

“I didn't dodge anything, last I checked we were talking about Canada”

Wrong. Actually, Bart introduced the American tangent my sequentially challenged chump and then you started erroneously suggesting Canada consciously and systematically exterminated Natives (Which you’ve yet to prove, coward).

$1:

“But of course we can't talk about Canada unless we inject a US comparison, how much more evil we were in the US, hence Canada gets a pass”

Pure hyperbole. I can practically hear the whine from here – don’t ascribe motives where they don’t exist and besides, isn’t this coming from the neophyte that still (with NO evidence, mind you) insists Canada is guilty of genocide? Smooth move, hypocrite.

$1:

“One does not forcibly continue placing children, for decades, into conditions that lead to their deaths if it is not systemic and deliberate. Seems to me unless you see a document that's marked "Exterminate the Natives" as its heading, you'll keep your head in the sand.”

DODGE!! I asked you to “demonstrate, with tangible, verifiable evidence that the FEDERAL CANADIAN government systemically and consciously EXTERMINATED Natives”, and you’ve responded with NOTHING!

Show me it’s deliberate. Show me it was a conscious effort on the part of the CANADIAN government (you don’t even know who actually ran the schools, do you?) to systematically exterminate natives!

$1:

“The British Empire did the same thing in Australia and India, what makes you think they would be any different in Canada?”

Oh…I don’t know…the fact that I know Canadian history and it’s not synonymous with British Imperial practices! Please read up on this stuff, as it’s really not my job to educate you.

Each and every time you bash on my nation’s past with your agenda-pushing revisionist dreck, I’ll be here to shove it back and humiliate you in the process. You don’t jack about Canadian history and it’s evident.

Have a nice day

[Yank-in-NY]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Each and every time you bash on my nation’s past with your agenda-pushing revisionist dreck, I’ll be here to shove it back and humiliate you in the process. You don’t jack about Canadian history and it’s evident.

Have a nice day coward

I know I know, Canadian nationalists have a hard time accepting anything negative about Canada. You're benevolent. Keep up the good work!

[DerbyX]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Each and every time you bash on my nation’s past with your agenda-pushing revisionist dreck, I’ll be here to shove it back and humiliate you in the process. You don’t jack about Canadian history and it’s evident.

Have a nice day coward

I know I know, Canadian nationalists have a hard time accepting anything negative about Canada. You're benevolent. Keep up the good work!

Are US nationalists any better? Are any nationalists anywhere?

BTW, Mustang1 isn't a super flag waving patriotic fanatic. He's a historian first and foremost. He just hates it when people use revisionist history or view it through "selective glasses" and its his mission to educate them.

If only I could get him to believe that we are all the descendants from the last surviving Battlestar then his knowledge of history would be perfect!

[Mustang1]

Another Dodge! Do you have some chickenshit quota to arrive at today! Damn. In the future, stay out of historical topics, as you seem to be quite adept at only promulgating your ignorance.

Just a recap forum fans, Yank here has accused Canada of wilfully participating in an overt act of genocide. When pressed for historical evidence to back up his rather insulting and contentious insinuations, he’s offered nothing and subsequently cowered from substantiating his dipshit assertions.

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

I know I know, Canadian nationalists have a hard time accepting anything negative about Canada.

Again, let’s see you demonstrate, with tangible, verifiable evidence that the FEDERAL CANADIAN government systemically and consciously EXTERMINATED Natives. I’ll accept Canada’s history, warts and all, if it’s TRUE.

Go cry in the corner, suck.

$1:

“You're benevolent”

I’m compassionate? Nice move, thesaurus-humper – fuck, you’re thick and no you weren’t tying to be facetious.

$1:

“Keep up the good work!”

Beating on dumb? I will, but I really don’t need encouragement from you.

[Mustang1]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Each and every time you bash on my nation’s past with your agenda-pushing revisionist dreck, I’ll be here to shove it back and humiliate you in the process. You don’t jack about Canadian history and it’s evident.

Have a nice day coward

I know I know, Canadian nationalists have a hard time accepting anything negative about Canada. You're benevolent. Keep up the good work!

Are US nationalists any better? Are any nationalists anywhere?

BTW, Mustang1 isn't a super flag waving patriotic fanatic. He's a historian first and foremost. He just hates it when people use revisionist history or view it through "selective glasses" and its his mission to educate them.

If only I could get him to believe that we are all the descendants from the last surviving Battlestar then his knowledge of history would be perfect!

Yeah, no shit. Einstein comes on to a site called “Canada Kicks Ass” and dumps on Canadian patriotism! Brilliant. He then accuses the Canadian government of genocide and when he can’t produce the historical evidence to back up his asinine claim, he resort to cowering, dodging and insolence. What a complete joke!

[DerbyX]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Each and every time you bash on my nation’s past with your agenda-pushing revisionist dreck, I’ll be here to shove it back and humiliate you in the process. You don’t jack about Canadian history and it’s evident.

Have a nice day coward

I know I know, Canadian nationalists have a hard time accepting anything negative about Canada. You're benevolent. Keep up the good work!

Are US nationalists any better? Are any nationalists anywhere?

BTW, Mustang1 isn't a super flag waving patriotic fanatic. He's a historian first and foremost. He just hates it when people use revisionist history or view it through "selective glasses" and its his mission to educate them.

If only I could get him to believe that we are all the descendants from the last surviving Battlestar then his knowledge of history would be perfect!

Yeah, no shit. Einstein comes on to a site called “Canada Kicks Ass” and dumps on Canadian patriotism! Brilliant. He then accuses the Canadian government of genocide and when he can’t produce the historical evidence to back up his asinine claim, he resort to cowering, dodging and insolence. What a complete joke!

Its the kind of hysterical historical revisionist crap that sees Natives paint themselves in the best light and us in the worst.

Sure over the course of 3+ centuries there is alot of bad history. SUre we took land that was theirs and fought them. We also fought with them. They also killed our settlers. They also killed each other.

That was how it was back then, all over the world.

To say its systematic genocide is just reactionist drivel.

At some point in the last 3000 years my ancestors have been the victims of the same crimes and at some point they were the perpetrators. Fortunately I am only responsible for my own actions.

Except for that fat chick last week. That I blame squarely on the alcohol!

(so does she!!)

[Yank-in-NY]

Frick and Frak are on a roll I see.

I have to come up with documents online to prove my point. The dead natives over decades after being forced to live under those conditions aren't enough. Yep you intentionally exterminated a good portion of the native population. Your barking won't change that.

[Yank-in-NY]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Are US nationalists any better? Are any nationalists anywhere?

No, they aren't. They're all the same.

DerbyX DerbyX:

BTW, Mustang1 isn't a super flag waving patriotic fanatic. He's a historian first and foremost. He just hates it when people use revisionist history or view it through "selective glasses" and its his mission to educate them.

His mission? Funny he said it's not his job educting anyone.

[Mustang1]

stratos stratos:

I'll have to agree with you on the treatment of native americans. The US gov. after the civil war had a very poor record of dealing with them. The use of small pox invested blankets, rotten grain, spoiled meat and the list goes on. Now i'm not sure what you mean by residental schools i've not heard that term used before with the US reservations. Can you tell/explain what they are in canada. Could be the US has something simular but I would know it by a diff. name.

Residential schools (boarding facilities) in Canada (some stretch to older colonial administrations) were set up by the federal government as a means of realizing a policy of ”aggressive civilization”. The schools, set up in virtually every province (essentially from about the 1870s) were designed to assimilate Natives into White culture. The initial administration of the schools was largely handled by various Christian Church denominations (which many accusation of physical abuse exist) and then taken over by the federal government in the late 1960s.

The U.S. had similar operations (with similar goals and similar abuses) but were called Reservation Boarding Schools, whereas others, like the Carlisle School, where referred to as residential Indian schools

$1:

“When talking about treaties and what not with firends and such I always ask what nation would you be most willing to sign a treaty with. Everyone of course says the US. I then point out the the US gov. has broken more treaties then any other nation in the world over the past 200 years. I just point to all the ones we signed with the various Indian nations and then broke them with in a couple years if not sooner. Does canada have a simular record with its native population?”

Canada’s record is a little better. We’re certainly not innocent (and we’re certainly not guilty of genocide either) but in many ways land pressure hasn’t been a major issue in Canada’s past (not that it didn’t exist in some regions) and therefore the impetus to expropriate or break treaties hasn’t been present. Did we try some pretty heavy-handed tactics for assimilation purposes (like residential schools)? Yes, and I’m neither defending those acts nor denying the accompanying physical and emotional abuses, but I’m not about to lose historical perspective and cast a cotemporary view on the actions.

In essence, both Europeans, their descendents and Natives have a rather quarrelsome past and it won’t be solved by constantly giving Natives money for past transgressions – both real and exaggerated.

[Mustang1]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

Frick and Frak are on a roll I see.

Brilliant. Razor sharp wit, I see.

$1:

“I have to come up with documents online to prove my point. The dead natives over decades after being forced to live under those conditions aren't enough. Yep you intentionally exterminated a good portion of the native population. Your barking won't change that.”

Dodge, excuses, whining – your mantra is becoming old. Either shit or get off the pot, wuss. You made the claim now back it up. You can’t find the evidence? Hmm…maybe, Herodotus, that’s because THERE IS NO EVIDENCE! Damn.

Again, demonstrate, with tangible, verifiable evidence that the FEDERAL CANADIAN government systemically and consciously EXTERMINATED Natives, or piss off.

Keep running, coward, as it's fun chasing you down.

[Mustang1]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

His mission? Funny he said it's not his job educting anyone.

Correction, coward, I said I’m not educating (what’s “educting”?) YOU. Learn to read.

[stratos]

$1:

In essence, both Europeans, their descendents and Natives have a rather quarrelsome past and it won’t be solved by constantly giving Natives money for past transgressions – both real and exaggerated.

I'm 100% in a greement. Things that happened more then a generation or two ago are not something that the current society of any country should have to be held responsable for. Paying reperations for to a group, race, or what ever for something that happened before your grandfathers time seems totaly asinine to me.

$1:

Canada’s record is a little better.......

I kind of figured it was, do to Cheif Joseph (I cant recall the name of his tribe) and his peoples attempt to flee the US and get into canada. They were like 50 miles short of the border when cought by the US military. Why go to Canada unless the natives were treated better then what they were in the US.

$1:

The U.S. had similar operations (with similar goals and similar abuses) but were called Reservation Boarding Schools,

Ok yeah those I know about some what from school and reading. Not the best thing ever done by the US gov. Though a few isolated incidents were honorabley done.

Thanks for the Info.

[Yank-in-NY]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

Frick and Frak are on a roll I see.

Brilliant. Razor sharp wit, I see.

$1:

“I have to come up with documents online to prove my point. The dead natives over decades after being forced to live under those conditions aren't enough. Yep you intentionally exterminated a good portion of the native population. Your barking won't change that.”

Dodge, excuses, whining – your mantra is becoming old. Either shit or get off the pot, wuss. You made the claim now back it up. You can’t find the evidence? Hmm…maybe, Herodotus, that’s because THERE IS NO EVIDENCE! Damn.

Again, demonstrate, with tangible, verifiable evidence that the FEDERAL CANADIAN government systemically and consciously EXTERMINATED Natives, or piss off.

Keep running, coward, as it's fun chasing you down.

I realize you are incapable of critical thought, but you have to try and comprehend. The Residential Schools were in operation for decades. For decades children were dying of tuberculosis and other diseases. Did the government do anything to stop it? No. Did the government take ANY action? No. Did the government change their policies despite all the deaths? No. Sounds like an intentional policy of extermination to me.

For you, you require a document stamped by all the government officials, throughout the decades claiming it to be an official policy.

I tell you again, the British Empire did the same thing in India and Australia, more overtly.