[PJB]

Yank..Yes thousands died from TB and other contagious diseases but it wasn't just the natives that were affected. You make it sound like the government introduced these diseases solely to the natives.

You make the government sound alot more powerful than it was at the time.

Insofar as the residential schools weren't they established to provide a promise that was in the treaties? The governments could have simply ignored the natives, but they didn't. Yes there were many cases of mistreatment but your assertion of organized genocide is ridiculous.

[Mustang1]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

I realize you are incapable of critical thought, but you have to try and comprehend.

This coming from the fucktard that thinks the Canadian government consciously exterminated its Native population? Whatever…get bent, dumbass.

$1:

“The Residential Schools were in operation for decades. For decades children were dying of tuberculosis and other diseases. Did the government do anything to stop it? No. Did the government take ANY action? No. Did the government change their policies despite all the deaths? No. Sounds like an intentional policy of extermination to me.”

Dodge Again! Where is the evidence that this was a deliberate effort (conscious and systemic) to exterminate the Natives (not just poor living conditions which were run largely by Churches!) orchestrated by the Canadian Federal government? I don’t care what it appears to the like of someone like you, that’s totally immaterial in history; I want tangible, objective evidence that clearly implicates the Canadian government in genocide. If not, take your little revisionist tripe and shove it up your ass. Any questions?

$1:

“For you, you require a document stamped by all the government officials, throughout the decades claiming it to be an official policy.”

Yep. Why can’t you find it, I wonder? Hmm…maybe take off your tinfoil hat and try to figure out that one. I’ll help you, because I believe in helping those less fortunate than me – there is no evidence because it didn’t EXIST! Were residential schools cruel? Some. Were residential schools agents of assimilation? Yes. Were residential schools places where heinous acts of sexual and physical abuse occurred perpetrated by some members of Church organizations (which, if you read anything, you’d know that the federal government took over administration duties in the late 1960s)? Yes. Where the schools part of a conscious effort by the Canadian government to eradicate the Native population (not assimilate its culture, but kill them)? NO. And perhaps you could also explain how these schools were still part of the genocide in the 1980s too! Evidently you can’t find any information from 20 years ago. I’ll wait while you bitch out from those issues.

$1:

“I tell you again, the British Empire did the same thing in India and Australia, more overtly.”

And this has what to do with the Canadian government in the late 1960s? Fuck, get some perspective as you’re trying to compare 19th century British Imperial policy with 20th century Canadian legislative initiatives? Let’s see you draw the parallels, as it should be quite entertaining.

[Mustang1]

stratos stratos:

$1:

In essence, both Europeans, their descendents and Natives have a rather quarrelsome past and it won’t be solved by constantly giving Natives money for past transgressions – both real and exaggerated.

I'm 100% in a greement. Things that happened more then a generation or two ago are not something that the current society of any country should have to be held responsable for. Paying reperations for to a group, race, or what ever for something that happened before your grandfathers time seems totaly asinine to me.

$1:

Canada’s record is a little better.......

I kind of figured it was, do to Cheif Joseph (I cant recall the name of his tribe) and his peoples attempt to flee the US and get into canada. They were like 50 miles short of the border when cought by the US military. Why go to Canada unless the natives were treated better then what they were in the US.

$1:

The U.S. had similar operations (with similar goals and similar abuses) but were called Reservation Boarding Schools,

Ok yeah those I know about some what from school and reading. Not the best thing ever done by the US gov. Though a few isolated incidents were honorabley done.

Thanks for the Info.

No problem.

[Yank-in-NY]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

I realize you are incapable of critical thought, but you have to try and comprehend.

This coming from the fucktard that thinks the Canadian government consciously exterminated its Native population? Whatever…get bent, dumbass.

$1:

“The Residential Schools were in operation for decades. For decades children were dying of tuberculosis and other diseases. Did the government do anything to stop it? No. Did the government take ANY action? No. Did the government change their policies despite all the deaths? No. Sounds like an intentional policy of extermination to me.”

Dodge Again! Where is the evidence that this was a deliberate effort (conscious and systemic) to exterminate the Natives (not just poor living conditions which were run largely by Churches!) orchestrated by the Canadian Federal government? I don’t care what it appears to the like of someone like you, that’s totally immaterial in history; I want tangible, objective evidence that clearly implicates the Canadian government in genocide. If not, take your little revisionist tripe and shove it up your ass. Any questions?

$1:

“For you, you require a document stamped by all the government officials, throughout the decades claiming it to be an official policy.”

Yep. Why can’t you find it, I wonder? Hmm…maybe take off your tinfoil hat and try to figure out that one. I’ll help you, because I believe in helping those less fortunate than me – there is no evidence because it didn’t EXIST! Were residential schools cruel? Some. Were residential schools agents of assimilation? Yes. Were residential schools places where heinous acts of sexual and physical abuse occurred perpetrated by some members of Church organizations (which, if you read anything, you’d know that the federal government took over administration duties in the late 1960s)? Yes. Where the schools part of a conscious effort by the Canadian government to eradicate the Native population (not assimilate its culture, but kill them)? NO. And perhaps you could also explain how these schools were still part of the genocide in the 1980s too! Evidently you can’t find any information from 20 years ago. I’ll wait while you bitch out from those issues.

$1:

“I tell you again, the British Empire did the same thing in India and Australia, more overtly.”

And this has what to do with the Canadian government in the late 1960s? Fuck, get some perspective as you’re trying to compare 19th century British Imperial policy with 20th century Canadian legislative initiatives? Let’s see you draw the parallels, as it should be quite entertaining.

Seek help. You have anger management problems.

[Yank-in-NY]

PJB PJB:

Yank..Yes thousands died from TB and other contagious diseases but it wasn't just the natives that were affected. You make it sound like the government introduced these diseases solely to the natives.

You make the government sound alot more powerful than it was at the time.

Insofar as the residential schools weren't they established to provide a promise that was in the treaties? The governments could have simply ignored the natives, but they didn't. Yes there were many cases of mistreatment but your assertion of organized genocide is ridiculous.

I never said genocide, that's Mustang spinning and twisting what posters say, apparently that gets you a Master Debator medal around here. Coupled with a nice dosage of contempt. But that's Mustang. Can't make a point with trying to intimidate the poster. I stress "trying" because all he does is look foolish and childish when he barks.

I'll say it again, did the government do anything at all to stop this?

The answer is NO.

The Residential Schools were not a 20th century issue, as Mustang likes to try and spin some more because, well that's all he has left.

There have been a number of books written on the subject. Nobody has pulled this out of a hat.

[Mustang1]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

I realize you are incapable of critical thought, but you have to try and comprehend.

This coming from the fucktard that thinks the Canadian government consciously exterminated its Native population? Whatever…get bent, dumbass.

$1:

“The Residential Schools were in operation for decades. For decades children were dying of tuberculosis and other diseases. Did the government do anything to stop it? No. Did the government take ANY action? No. Did the government change their policies despite all the deaths? No. Sounds like an intentional policy of extermination to me.”

Dodge Again! Where is the evidence that this was a deliberate effort (conscious and systemic) to exterminate the Natives (not just poor living conditions which were run largely by Churches!) orchestrated by the Canadian Federal government? I don’t care what it appears to the like of someone like you, that’s totally immaterial in history; I want tangible, objective evidence that clearly implicates the Canadian government in genocide. If not, take your little revisionist tripe and shove it up your ass. Any questions?

$1:

“For you, you require a document stamped by all the government officials, throughout the decades claiming it to be an official policy.”

Yep. Why can’t you find it, I wonder? Hmm…maybe take off your tinfoil hat and try to figure out that one. I’ll help you, because I believe in helping those less fortunate than me – there is no evidence because it didn’t EXIST! Were residential schools cruel? Some. Were residential schools agents of assimilation? Yes. Were residential schools places where heinous acts of sexual and physical abuse occurred perpetrated by some members of Church organizations (which, if you read anything, you’d know that the federal government took over administration duties in the late 1960s)? Yes. Where the schools part of a conscious effort by the Canadian government to eradicate the Native population (not assimilate its culture, but kill them)? NO. And perhaps you could also explain how these schools were still part of the genocide in the 1980s too! Evidently you can’t find any information from 20 years ago. I’ll wait while you bitch out from those issues.

$1:

“I tell you again, the British Empire did the same thing in India and Australia, more overtly.”

And this has what to do with the Canadian government in the late 1960s? Fuck, get some perspective as you’re trying to compare 19th century British Imperial policy with 20th century Canadian legislative initiatives? Let’s see you draw the parallels, as it should be quite entertaining.

Seek help. You have anger management problems.

Seek education. You’re ignorant.
Seek Courage. You’re a coward.
Seek sound History. You’re a revisionist.

Your dodge is rather transparent – you just face slapped my fist and you’ve got nothing

Piss off, loser.

[Mustang1]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

I never said genocide, that's Mustang spinning and twisting what posters say, apparently that gets you a Master Debator medal around here. Coupled with a nice dosage of contempt. But that's Mustang. Can't make a point with trying to intimidate the poster. I stress "trying" because all he does is look foolish and childish when he barks.

Keep trying coward – people here recognize a revisionist slime when they rear their ugly head. You claimed that the Canadian government systematically and consciously EXTERMINATED Natives and that’s patently false. I repeatedly challenged you to “demonstrate, with tangible, verifiable evidence that the FEDERAL CANADIAN government systemically and consciously EXTERMINATED Natives.” That’s all – it’s not about semantics, it’s about objective fact. You’re cowering behind the former because you’ve got noting on the later. You are a liar, a coward and a disingenuous piece of trash.

$1:

“The Residential Schools were not a 20th century issue, as Mustang likes to try and spin some more because, well that's all he has left.”

Wrong. Read a book and go back to your corner until you get a clue.

[Yank-in-NY]

Still can't say anything as to why your benevolent government did nothing about correcting the mass murder/attempted extermination eh?

I know you can't. It's indefensable. You're trying though, of course by the only way you know how, resort to name calling, intimidation etc...

Another requirement apparently for the Master Debator medal.

[Mustang1]

DODGE!!!!!!!

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

Still can't say anything as to why your benevolent government did nothing about correcting the mass murder/attempted extermination eh?

Sorry, but no mass murder or attempted extermination – you haven’t established that yet. We’re still waiting, coward.

Again, demonstrate, with tangible, verifiable evidence that the FEDERAL CANADIAN government systemically and consciously EXTERMINATED Natives.

You’ve made the assertion that the Canadian government wilfully exterminated people now let’s see you prove it.

Keep trashing my country’s past with bullshit and I’ll be here to ram it back in slack jawed face, moron

$1:

“I know you can't. It's indefensable. You're trying though, of course by the only way you know how, resort to name calling, intimidation etc...

I can’t defend fiction, dumbass (oh and it’s “indefensible”, you illiterate joke). Either establish your point with collaborating tangible primary and secondary sources or apologize to the board for slurring Canada’s past. I won’t let you weasel out of this – you can hypocritically chastise me for insults, it is immaterial, but that doesn’t change the fact that you are a liar, coward and a revisionist simpleton.

$1:

“Another requirement apparently for the Master Debator medal.”

Actually, kicking your revisionist ass to the curb isn’t a requirement insomuch as it’s a duty. I love exposing intellectually stunted nothings and you’re particularly fun as you’re also a disingenuous coward.

Keep trying…all I’ve seen here is you consistently nose smack my elbow.

[saga]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

saga saga:

I made no comparison to the scale of the nazi holocaust. I merely quoted Duncan Campbell Scott's use of the term "final solution" in the decade before Hitler used it.

That’s a blatant lie, Granny. Not only are you coward, you’re a disingenuous fraud too. See your “blog” here and your other threads for evidence of your lies.

The "final solution", made infamous by Hitler, was first invented and used in Canada against Indigenous people.

That was my statement.

You are really upset about this, Mustang1.
Take a rest?

Insults only appear when you have run out of legitimate points.


Do you accept that sexual abuse was common?

There were no modern birth control methods at that time.
Would you assume that there may have been babies born?
They would have been half white, so couldn't be adopted out without blowing the whistle on a preist or minister or staff member.
What do you think happened to those babies?

You should get copy of the CBC movie called "Butterbox Babies.

Mustang, I realize that this is a really emotional issue for you, perhaps for reasons of religion.

It should be an emotional issue for all Canadians.

I was at a community meeting today in Caledonia. A Six Nations woman (approx 35-40) went to the mike during the question period. She said her question was for Canada, and her voice broke, and she said through her tears "Why did you take my mom! Why did you make her feel she was dirty and worthless? And that passed on to me ... I felt so worthless I was afraid to even go to town! Why did you take my mom ... Why did you do that Canada?" Most of the crowd was in tears. A lot of them were steelworkers from the famous (former) Hamilton Stelco Local 1005. They came ton our meeting to act as security for us (since there are still a lot of racist attacks in Caledonia), and ended up in tears.

And that's a pretty mild story, compared to what is to come. They are only beginning to talk, Mustang, and it's not going to be a pretty picture for Canada, so we'd ALL better stop trying to deny the truth.

Criminals are supposed to show remorse. Our country is a criminal.

The federal government took over the residential schools in 1892, and ran them for almost 100 years, with the churches. The churches ran them themselves through the 1800's. Almost two hundred years of death and destruction of people and families.
Why? To take away their strength, their personal power, their family supports ... and their land.

[Mustang1]

saga saga:

The "final solution", made infamous by Hitler, was first invented and used in Canada against Indigenous people.

Nope. Sorry, Granny, you’re wrong and so is whatever site you parroted that junk from. I already addressed this and you’re tantrums won’t alter your error.

$1:

“That was my statement.”

Great. It’s incorrect. You’re still a liar.

$1:

“You are really upset about this, Mustang1.”

Thanks Dr. Phil, but I’d save the dime store psychology for someone else, bed crapper. Besides, this is coming from the screaming buffoon that gets jailed at the drop of a hat – I can’t help it that you simply don’t know squat about the topic. It’s time to take that walker for the long shuffle to the Guy Lombardo room to get your diaper changed and have some fine banana Pablum.

$1:

“Insults only appear when you have run out of legitimate points.”

Nope. I schooled your ass here. Run to whatever peripheral nonsense you want, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re a geriatric joke here

Another dementia-filled Granny post and another fantastic bed crapping mess. Night folks!

[saga]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

saga saga:

The "final solution", made infamous by Hitler, was first invented and used in Canada against Indigenous people.

Nope. Sorry, Granny, you’re wrong and so is whatever site you parroted that junk from. I already addressed this and you’re tantrums won’t alter your error.

$1:

“That was my statement.”

Great. It’s incorrect. You’re still a liar.

$1:

“You are really upset about this, Mustang1.”

Thanks Dr. Phil, but I’d save the dime store psychology for someone else, bed crapper. Besides, this is coming from the screaming buffoon that gets jailed at the drop of a hat – I can’t help it that you simply don’t know squat about the topic. It’s time to take that walker for the long shuffle to the Guy Lombardo room to get your diaper changed and have some fine banana Pablum.

$1:

“Insults only appear when you have run out of legitimate points.”

Nope. I schooled your ass here. Run to whatever peripheral nonsense you want, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re a geriatric joke here

Another dementia-filled Granny post and another fantastic bed crapping mess. Night folks!

Ya well ... you are stupid, Mustang, if you think I will accept your denial with no evidence. You have schooled nothing ... including yourself. You just rant that I am wrong, but I am not wrong.

Consider this:
Death rates in residential schools.

.. and no ... you have provided absolutely no evidence a all, just insults.

truth hurts!

[Mustang1]

Hmm…something smell kinda funny…damn it, Granny, you crapped the bed again! Clean up your mess as it’s stinking up the joint

saga saga:

Ya well ... you are stupid, Mustang, if you think I will accept your denial with no evidence. You have schooled nothing ... including yourself. You just rant that I am wrong, but I am not wrong.

Blah, Blah, Blah…senility haze again, Granny? You tried to be persuasive, but we’re smarter and better educated and dismantled your fluff quite easily. Sorry, like your hip, this is weak. I pity you, I really do, but that doesn’t alter the fact that you consistently shit the sheets here. Next

$1:

“. and no ... you have provided absolutely no evidence a all, just insults.”

Nope. I provided plenty of historical evidence (I schooled you on your dumb Canada/Final Solution thread) and you’ve yet to demonstrate the conscious intent on the part of the Canadian government to systematically eliminate Natives. Oh…and biased junk from pro-Native sites isn’t evidence – get some real historians and primary evidence to support your asinine assertions and quit using juvenile websites as it screams amateur laziness.

$1:

“truth hurts!”

That’s why my posts leave a mark.

Another Granny post, another Granny poop.

[saga]

The topic of this thread is "Are First Nations sovereign?", and the author, HyperionTheEvil, believes they are not.

I listened to a lawyer speak today on aboriginal rights. Indigenous people were sovereign and self governing for centuries before we Eurpoeans arrived. By law, unless they specifically gave up their sovereignty in a treaty, etc., they are still sovereign.

Knock me down with a feather! That's a shocker isn't it?

But true.

Now, when Canada negotiates a new agreement/treaty, the band or group is told they MUST extinguish their Aboriginal rights and sovereignty rights.
Canada has no right to force demand or extort them to do this. It is illegal.

None of this is simple, but new treaties which maintain all of their rights are absolutely necessary, and likely cheaper than the altenative of a long and damaging war within our own land.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee! She's cooked!

[themasta]

saga saga:

The topic of this thread is "Are First Nations sovereign?", and the author, HyperionTheEvil, believes they are not.

I listened to a lawyer speak today on aboriginal rights. Indigenous people were sovereign and self governing for centuries before we Eurpoeans arrived. By law, unless they specifically gave up their sovereignty in a treaty, etc., they are still sovereign.

Knock me down with a feather! That's a shocker isn't it?

But true.

Now, when Canada negotiates a new agreement/treaty, the band or group is told they MUST extinguish their Aboriginal rights and sovereignty rights.
Canada has no right to force demand or extort them to do this. It is illegal.

None of this is simple, but new treaties which maintain all of their rights are absolutely necessary, and likely cheaper than the altenative of a long and damaging war within our own land.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee! She's cooked!

So a lawyer (paid by the Federal government to defend Indians) did what he was paid to do? That means nothing. Lawyers do and say what they are told in order to collect a paycheque. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that they are not always correct or on the side of good. Even a psychotic, rapist killer enjoys the benefit of a lawyer and that lawyer will go to the ends of the Earth and back to prove the killers innocence, so long as he's getting paid.