[Curtman]

andyt andyt:

Curtman Curtman:

I don't think the answer is to go on putting these people in hotels indefinitely. You might think they should just pack up and move on, but to where?

We have the same situation in some areas close to Vancouver. People who built in a flood prone area. Since they are Second Nations, they have been told they are on their own - no flood protection for them. That would be a situation where I could see the First Nations issue being relevant - the poor First Nations have nowhere to go. That would never come up with Second Nations. The difference might be that these people live on a natural flood plain - if I understand it right, the Manitoba Natives claim that the govt actually caused the flooding, rather than being a natural event.

Not just Natives. Here in the Red River valley, flooding is just a fact of life. So we build diversions and dams to prevent flooding of the cities. Inevitably diverting the water from the city sends it somewhere else. It the flood of '97 the Red River (South -> North) flooded, and South of Winnipeg was a lake. This flood came West -> East on the Assiniboine and we diverted the water Northward to save the cities. It was a natural event, but man-made diversions were used to save the cities.

[andyt]

Well, seems to me then the people who have to deal with that diverted water have a claim. Not a billion dollars, but something.

[Curtman]

This is an article from that time..

Province to divert Assiniboine into La Salle

$1:

The Manitoba government said it plans to divert water from the Assiniboine River into the La Salle River watershed in an effort to avoid a massive spill that would inundate 500 square kilometres of southern Manitoba.

Due to unprecedented flows on the Assiniboine, the province plans to send 2,000 to 6,000 cubic feet of water per second from the Assiniboine River into the La Salle River through a new channel southeast of Portage la Prairie, Emergency Measures Minister Steve Ashton told a news conference Monday.

The province also plans to send more water through the Portage Diversion into Lake Manitoba, even though the artificial channel west of Portage la Prairie was not designed to handle higher flows, he added.

I don't know what they deserve either, but something needs to be done to prevent it in the future.

[BeaverFever]

I think you're just making shit up to satify your angry-middle-aged-white-male-ism.

1) NOT ALL OF THE PLAINTIFFS ARE NATIVE. THIS IS NOT A NATIVE ISSUE. It's obvious that your contempt for the politics of Aboriginal issues just causes you to take the opposite position of any issue where you smell a Native.

2) "JOE WHITEY" sues government all the time. Ontario paid at $20 MILLION dollar settlement to Non-native Calendonia residents who sued for property damage. And the Province did not even directly cause the damage.

3) Regardless of what language used in the article, The language in the lawsuit says "the defendent knew or should have known" and "breach of fidcuciary duty" and "owed a duty of care" to residents.

4) For all I know, it may be that the law makes the province immune from the consequences of such actions or that area residents were notified through some other means. It may be that flooding that particular area was the only option available. I AM not here to argue their case. What I AM saying is that this is a case of residents whose property and livelihoods suffered as a result of actions carried out by the government and they are suing. It doesn't matter that 9 of the 12 plaintiffs are Native, it's totally irrelevant.

[Curtman]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

THIS IS NOT A NATIVE ISSUE.

To be fair, the title of the article is "First Nations residents sue province over flooding". I don't think it was anybody on this forum that turned this into a native issue. It started that way.

[BeaverFever]

The article reads like it was written by high-schooler.

$1:

Residents of four Manitoba First Nations whose lives were messed up...

"Messed up?" Is that a technical term?

And then the article repeatedly refers to the fact that the residents are First Nations throughout, as if it were a central fact, but doesn't tell you that the fisheries company is non-native, leading readers to the wrong conclusion.

[andyt]

Curtman Curtman:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

THIS IS NOT A NATIVE ISSUE.

To be fair, the title of the article is "First Nations residents sue province over flooding". I don't think it was anybody on this forum that turned this into a native issue. It started that way.

Oh, no, read the responses - it was turned into a Native issue on this forum. But I guess you have a point, the fact they were First Nations isn't really relevant.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I think you're just making shit up to satify your angry-middle-aged-white-male-ism.

1) NOT ALL OF THE PLAINTIFFS ARE NATIVE. THIS IS NOT A NATIVE ISSUE. It's obvious that your contempt for the politics of Aboriginal issues just causes you to take the opposite position of any issue where you smell a Native.

I make no bones about the fact that I dispise Native people based on over a decade of experience dealing with these people.

This is a Native issue and that's what's causing this issue to get attention on here and in the media. It's been made an Native issue by those involved in order to collect.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

2) "JOE WHITEY" sues government all the time. Ontario paid at $20 MILLION dollar settlement to Non-native Calendonia residents who sued for property damage. And the Province did not even directly cause the damage.

Joe Whitey doesn't typically sue the government due to nature or ask for ridiculous sums of money.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

3) Regardless of what language used in the article, The language in the lawsuit says "the defendent knew or should have known" and "breach of fidcuciary duty" and "owed a duty of care" to residents.

The same could be said for the residents. You think they just woke up one day and realised they were in an area of flood risk? I don't buy it.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

4) For all I know, it may be that the law makes the province immune from the consequences of such actions or that area residents were notified through some other means. It may be that flooding that particular area was the only option available. I AM not here to argue their case. What I AM saying is that this is a case of residents whose property and livelihoods suffered as a result of actions carried out by the government and they are suing. It doesn't matter that 9 of the 12 plaintiffs are Native, it's totally irrelevant.

Homeowners are rarely covered for "acts of God" unless they have specific flood insurance.

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I make no bones about the fact that I dispise Native people based on over a decade of experience dealing with these people.

See.. Here's a guy who takes pride in being a racist. Good on you OTI. Own it.

[BeaverFever]

Again, they are alleging that the province diverted overflow from another area through a system and flooded their land, not that it was flood due to act of good. The lawsuit claims that in the past, residents were notified in advance before floodgates were opened.

$1:

Joe Whitey doesn't typically sue the government due to nature or ask for ridiculous sums of money.

Again, what planet are you on????

$1:

I make no bones about the fact that I dispise Native people based on over a decade of experience dealing with these people.

Well glad to hear you admit you judge everyone who belongs to a particular race the same way, regardless of their individual occupation or character. That is the textbook definition of a racist. Your personal experience does not qualify you to judge every individual member a race as if they are not individuals. And I guess that prejudism just extends to the non-Natives who joined them in the lawsuit.

[Freakinoldguy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Oh ya right guys, White people never sue anybody for anything, that's a Native thing. Why I bet I could come over and bulldoze all your homes and you'd just "pick up and move on"

What fucking planet are you living on?

Not the one those Natives are living on and that's a fact.

You asked about white people suing for huge sums of money, well here's some people who should be suing for a ton of money but aren't as the matter of fact they're still paying taxes and hydro bills for homes they can't live in.

$1:

Lillooet homeowners hit by landslide stuck with taxes, hydro bills

The homeowners want the district to buy them out at a reasonable price, and maintain the district has some culpability for the landslide as the hill is district property. But meetings with district staff have gone nowhere.


Read it on Global News: Global BC | Lillooet homeowners hit by landslide stuck with taxes, hydro bills

http://www.globaltvbc.com/lillooet+home ... story.html

Sounds markedly different from the I want a billion dollar refrain we're hearing from 9 Manitoba Natives doesn't it?

[Freakinoldguy]

And just while were on the topic of Manitoba Natives and flooding here's another piece that native apologists will have a tough time defending.

$1:

First Nation leaders diverted flood funds

Winnipeg Free Press April 11, 2012

The chief and council of Manitoba's Peguis First Nation paid themselves thousands of dollars in money earmarked for flood compensation, diverted thousands more to private consultants and hired unqualified staff as a make-work project for flood emergency operations.

Those findings - obtained by the Winnipeg Free Press - are among the red flags raised by an independent management review and auditing firm in Ottawa. That outside review Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development ordered in November was tasked with tracking what happened to $10.5 million in federal flood-compensation funding. It concluded that due to "numerous significant control weaknesses" it was impossible to "provide assurances that all of the funds were spent for the intended purposes."

The Peguis audit was part of a broader review of how federal emergency assistance was managed for First Nations in the wake of Manitoba's 2010-11 floods.

When you have 9 Natives and a barely profitable fish company suing for a billion dollars while native leaders steal money from other natives, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why the rest of us are getting a little tired of the fucking poor me act, now does it.

[BeaverFever]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Oh ya right guys, White people never sue anybody for anything, that's a Native thing. Why I bet I could come over and bulldoze all your homes and you'd just "pick up and move on"

What fucking planet are you living on?

Not the one those Natives are living on and that's a fact.

You asked about white people suing for huge sums of money, well here's some people who should be suing for a ton of money but aren't as the matter of fact they're still paying taxes and hydro bills for homes they can't live in.

$1:

Lillooet homeowners hit by landslide stuck with taxes, hydro bills

The homeowners want the district to buy them out at a reasonable price, and maintain the district has some culpability for the landslide as the hill is district property. But meetings with district staff have gone nowhere.


Read it on Global News: Global BC | Lillooet homeowners hit by landslide stuck with taxes, hydro bills


http://www.globaltvbc.com/lillooet+home ... story.html

Sounds markedly different from the I want a billion dollar refrain we're hearing from 9 Manitoba Natives doesn't it?

So now the argument is shifting...your team has decided its now ok to demand compensation for "acts of god" as long as the amount is reasonable? It doesnt even say how much they are looking for. And the govt didnt cause the lanslide whereas they caused the flood.

And why are you all so silent on the Non-native business thats also suing?

[BeaverFever]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

And just while were on the topic of Manitoba Natives and flooding here's another piece that native apologists will have a tough time defending.

$1:

First Nation leaders diverted flood funds

Winnipeg Free Press April 11, 2012

The chief and council of Manitoba's Peguis First Nation paid themselves thousands of dollars in money earmarked for flood compensation, diverted thousands more to private consultants and hired unqualified staff as a make-work project for flood emergency operations.

Those findings - obtained by the Winnipeg Free Press - are among the red flags raised by an independent management review and auditing firm in Ottawa. That outside review Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development ordered in November was tasked with tracking what happened to $10.5 million in federal flood-compensation funding. It concluded that due to "numerous significant control weaknesses" it was impossible to "provide assurances that all of the funds were spent for the intended purposes."

The Peguis audit was part of a broader review of how federal emergency assistance was managed for First Nations in the wake of Manitoba's 2010-11 floods.

When you have 9 Natives and a barely profitable fish company suing for a billion dollars while native leaders steal money from other natives, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why the rest of us are getting a little tired of the fucking poor me act, now does it.

1) why do you say the fish co is "barely profitable?" Did you just make that up?
2) So if somebody comits wrongdoing, everybody of the same race as the wrongdoer has to be punished for it?

[Freakinoldguy]

Where in the arcticle does it say an act of God?

$1:

The homeowners want the district to buy them out at a reasonable price, and maintain the district has some culpability for the landslide as the hill is district property. But meetings with district staff have gone nowhere

You may consider the hill collapse an act of god, but the homeowners don't they consider the district culpable.

$1:

In the meantime, he said, the district is waiting for a final report from their geotechnical engineer, which should be in the next week or so.

But you still haven't explained away the fact that 9 natives think their properties are worth a billion dollars yet 3 whites only want fair compensation which puts paid to your theory that white people are just as bad as natives when seeking compensation from a Government.