[djakeydd]

The point of Jesus is that he has the same amount of historicity as Julius Caesar, for example, (for those who insist he was a fictional character) and that he was God, manifest in the flesh. That is the point.

[Mustang1]

djakeydd djakeydd:

The point of Jesus is that he has the same amount of historicity as Julius Caesar...

Really?

[BeaverFever]

pffft. More like as much historicity as Hercules. Or Thor. Or the Incredible Hulk.

[BeaverFever]

Not to pile on, but you should watch this, if you haven't seen it:

[Dragom]

I kinda figured Jesus was a Reformist Jew that spent his life trying to imprint his own values onto Judaism and protecting it from political interference until he was executed for treason after refusing to offer prayer at the Cult of the Emperor.

Then Paul decided to base a religion on his best friend instead of protecting Judaism from Roman interference or reforming Judaism in his image, essentially betraying his friends trust postmortem.

Though he might have gotten what he wanted in the end with the separation of Church and State.

[HyperionTheEvil]

angler57 angler57:

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

Religion, with it's plethora of Shakespearean characters, is just another way to control the masses.

Thats why Jesus is a Hogwarts creation.

===========================================================================
Interesting hobbies PR; Might be better said another way. Your time line is incorrect.
Bible first then the Bard of Avon.
Don't agree but you are entitled to your own personal views.

Actually Harry Potter is probably the safer of the two books you give your kids to read. No one has started a crusade or jihad yet because on behalf of JK rowling

[Dayseed]

Dragom Dragom:

Then Paul decided to base a religion on his best friend instead of protecting Judaism from Roman interference or reforming Judaism in his image, essentially betraying his friends trust postmortem.

I don't think I'd exactly refer to Paul as Jesus' friend. Reading his letters, its doubtful Paul even thought Jesus was a real person and instead likened him to a Hercules or a Thor.

[angler57]

Why is it so important for so many non-believers to debunk God or Jesus?

What are you folks affraid of?

Being a hated Re-born Chriatian this wish to sway others beliefs is very comicial
to me.
You people may shout, talk, argue, debunk, rant and present what ever suits you.

Won't change a believers mind one tiny bit.
More to the point of the matter? Why do you even find it necessary?
What do fear from us?

[DerbyX]

angler57 angler57:

Why is it so important for so many non-believers to debunk God or Jesus?

What are you folks affraid of?

Being a hated Re-born Chriatian this wish to sway others beliefs is very comicial
to me.
You people may shout, talk, argue, debunk, rant and present what ever suits you.

Won't change a believers mind one tiny bit.
More to the point of the matter? Why do you even find it necessary?
What do fear from us?

Its not you we fear, its your continued attempts to force your religion on everything in society.

If we did not take great effort to stop you our laws would reflect religious doctrine and that is a blow against freedom. Certain segments of our population, namely gays, would face even greater persecution as they have in the past based on religious ideology.

Science would suffer as biblical doctrine was forced to be taught equally (at least) alongside things like evolution. A single religions doctrine I might add and not a pan-religious instruction designed to introduce all religions to school kids.

If we didn't make an effort to stop you every classroom would have again, a single religion, prayer said at a minimum daily. In fact given half the chance every aspect of society would be adorned with religious symbols, again of a single religion.

In medical care certain procedures well documented as highly effective at saving lives would be simply cast aside in favour of "religious based: medicine (ie just pray for the cancer) or outlawed as going against scripture, ie blood donations.

We don't fear you. We simply recognize the threat you represent and make every effort to prevent that threat from encompassing all. Keep your religion to yourself and out of law, medicine, classrooms, government, or in any other matter where society as a whole is affected.

[andyt]

angler57 angler57:

Why is it so important for so many non-believers to debunk God or Jesus?

What are you folks affraid of?

Being a hated Re-born Chriatian this wish to sway others beliefs is very comicial
to me.
You people may shout, talk, argue, debunk, rant and present what ever suits you.

Won't change a believers mind one tiny bit.
More to the point of the matter? Why do you even find it necessary?
What do fear from us?

My original questions weren't about debunking, but an honest wrestling with what Christianity teaches. I'm not a Christian in your sense, but I do think the teachings attributed to Jesus are very valuable, tho not original.

But as Derby says, we don't fear God, but some of his believers, and what they get up to in his name (in vain.)

[angler57]

Andyt

My original questions weren't about debunking, but an honest wrestling with what Christianity teaches. I'm not a Christian in your sense, but I do think the teachings attributed to Jesus are very valuable, tho not original.

But as Derby says, we don't fear God, but some of his believers, and what they get up to in his name (in vain.)
========================================


Angler57; Understand your ideas. But, all of these discussions get into the us and them area.
Only times I discuss my beliefs is on a forum. Or, with church friend.
Wish people would all make that totally clear. (Some not ALL.)

Atheist, (SOME OF THEM) church goers and people with no clue, all do bad things. Not just SOME.
I have always said here/or anywhere that each persons beliefs or lack there of, are their own business. You beliefs are, for sure, your own and more power to you for them. Denny
Christians or

[djakeydd]

Lets face it anyway, we live in the post modern era. The hatred out there for true fundamental King James Version Chrisianity is ruthless, that is why the public would rather put a mosque up at Ground zero in NYC, anything but Christian of any form. The blasphemy against Jesus is being ramped up by the day and one day this will come to it's fruition.

[Dayseed]

djakeydd djakeydd:

Lets face it anyway, we live in the post modern era. The hatred out there for true fundamental King James Version Chrisianity is ruthless, that is why the public would rather put a mosque up at Ground zero in NYC, anything but Christian of any form. The blasphemy against Jesus is being ramped up by the day and one day this will come to it's fruition.

Right there...stop. How the hell do you know that the King James VERSION is the one true version? The fact that your truth has the word "version" cemented into the title should clue you in that perhaps you're not giving this enough serious thought.

You'll notice that the inerrant word of God has 57 varieties, but nobody doubts the single truth of gravity one stinkin' bit.

I guess God has less pull than gravity...

[Dayseed]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Its not you we fear, its your continued attempts to force your religion on everything in society.

If we did not take great effort to stop you our laws would reflect religious doctrine and that is a blow against freedom. Certain segments of our population, namely gays, would face even greater persecution as they have in the past based on religious ideology.

Science would suffer as biblical doctrine was forced to be taught equally (at least) alongside things like evolution. A single religions doctrine I might add and not a pan-religious instruction designed to introduce all religions to school kids.

If we didn't make an effort to stop you every classroom would have again, a single religion, prayer said at a minimum daily. In fact given half the chance every aspect of society would be adorned with religious symbols, again of a single religion.

In medical care certain procedures well documented as highly effective at saving lives would be simply cast aside in favour of "religious based: medicine (ie just pray for the cancer) or outlawed as going against scripture, ie blood donations.

We don't fear you. We simply recognize the threat you represent and make every effort to prevent that threat from encompassing all. Keep your religion to yourself and out of law, medicine, classrooms, government, or in any other matter where society as a whole is affected.

What's worse is that Christians can't agree on their own religion amongst themselves, but boy do they have a plan for the rest of us to follow.

Encouragement of religion period makes for bad public policy. Christianity, amongst other religions, would gladly chuck evolution into the wastebin because it defies their precious book. Ironically, those who want to smudge evolution away usually point to the bible as their source. Well, if they're so Christian, then why do they make a false idol out of the Bible (yo, it's not part of your Holy Trinity guys) and use it to denounce the world their God clearly made for them.

I don't get religion, I really don't.

[ShepherdsDog]

JESUS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!! Without him, fruit wouldn't be picked, shrubs wouldn't be pruned and Arizona would only be on the news for its hot weather.