[BeaverFever]

The whole "unions ruined the North American auto industry" is total BS. European and Japanese plants are highly unionized, often earn more and play a greater role in corporate decision making. Even their non-union plants here in NA pattern their compensation after what the union guys get.

Equally stupid is the argument that we should or could be a country with all bosses and no workers so the guys who have to take orders for a living should go fuck themselves and be happy to toil for poverty wages. Obviously, societies and economies dont function unless the majority of the population are workers, not bosses. What you are therefore suggesting is some sort of feudal system where bulk of the population is some sort of peasant workforce that labours endlessly to cater to the whims of some wealthy elite.

The reason NA cars are shit is because wealth in North American industry is now funnelled OUT of the company and AWAY from workers instead of reinvested in company growth and skilled workers. The global financial sector is now the slumlord of western industry, buying up shares of profitable firms, demanding consistently high short-term returns and running them into the ground. The CEO of a company today is so highly paid compared to his predecessors from previous eras because a large chunk of his earnings are now based on how much money he moves OUT of the business to pay these mafia-like finance owners.


The real attack here is on the wages and income of ALL working people, whether they are union or non-union, white collar or blue collar. Wages and incomes are stagnant across the board and have been for decades. 4-year University degress now pay less than they did in the past. Some people just get so easily fooled by the divide and conquer tactics and their own decreasing standard of living thay they turn on other workers instead of recognizing who the real enemy is.

[EyeBrock]

Well BF. People stopped buying Ford/GM/Chrysler.
High wages mean that the price of the product makes it less profitable.

By the way, the Honda and Toyota plants in Ontario are not unionised and they are Japanese owned and run.

Who cares if the profits are 'funnelled out'? It's a business, not a charity. They are supposed to make money, you are missing this concept.

The CEO's got a ridiculous amount of money, the workers were overpaid.

In the socialist utopia that you obviously yearn for, maybe crap, ugly and expensive cars could be made as a social program. But really, who would earn enough money to buy the crap cars?

Up the workers comrade and all pigs are equal.

[OldChum]

Most of the manufacturing jobs have left cause we are not competitive wage and red tape wise, less rules and less wages and very few rules in China and Mexico

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well BF. People stopped buying Ford/GM/Chrysler.
High wages mean that the price of the product makes it less profitable.

By the way, the Honda and Toyota plants in Ontario are not unionised and they are Japanese owned and run.

That's not strictly true. I own Toyota stock and I'm not Japanese.

[EyeBrock]

Because you own stock in them that stops them from being Japanese companies? You are being picky.

[Robair]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Because you own stock in them that stops them from being Japanese companies?

It stops them from being strictly Japanese companies.

Read his post again, slowly.

[OldChum]

Yea I would think so too

[EyeBrock]

I get that they are public companies, HQ's are in Japan, they say they are Japanese companies. I read that slowly.
Does Lemmy run Toyota?
I own stock in a few companies. It doesn't mean I run them. Very silly.

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I get that they are public companies, HQ's are in Japan, they say they are Japanese companies. I read that slowly.
Does Lemmy run Toyota?
I own stock in a few companies. It doesn't mean I run them. Very silly.

It's not "silly", it is what it is. I was just saying.

[EyeBrock]

Yea, yea. Fine, you can buy stock in them. They are still Japanese companies, run from Japan with a percentage of stock held by the world of investors. How's that?

I get the stock model for global companies. I too invest. It still doesn't counter the fact that the Big three built crap cars that were too expensive.

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It still doesn't counter the fact that the Big three built crap cars that were too expensive.

No shit! I've made that point more times on CKA in the past 9 months than I've seen my wife's cans!

[EyeBrock]

You need to stop going on CKA and be nicer to her. I have an excuse, mine works shifts.

[DerbyX]

Lemmy Lemmy:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It still doesn't counter the fact that the Big three built crap cars that were too expensive.

No shit! I've made that point more times on CKA in the past 9 months than I've seen my wife's cans!

I can't make that claim.

Take from that what you want.

[PluggyRug]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Lemmy Lemmy:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It still doesn't counter the fact that the Big three built crap cars that were too expensive.

No shit! I've made that point more times on CKA in the past 9 months than I've seen my wife's cans!

I make that claim.

Take from that what you want.

I took the word can't.

[BeaverFever]

brock you dont get it...NA cars a CHEAPER than imports but still they dont sell because theyre CRAP...this shoots down the theory that
overpaid workers are pricing them out of the market. BUT it does illustrate how NA companies dont invest in R&D and long-term development like japanese and euro makers do because theyre too busy paying out all their cash to the financial mafia that NOW controls them. FINE its their 'right' to subtract that wealth from the production economy and transfer it to the financial economy if they wish, that doesnt mean its a good thing and not the cause of our problems. Recognize that THIS is what has changed in the past few decades and brought us here, not something else.J st like if I buy up every house in town, its my right to bulldoze them all into the ground and let the land stand empty, that doesnt mean Im not to blame for the resulting housing shortage or that what Im doing is good for the economy or the city.

second point - and this one is important because it busts a popluar myth that is patently false- is that japanese companies are not non-union. In fact, most of the japanese products are still made in japan where it is almost ALL union and even the non-union plants here in NA pay wages similar to that of the CAW/UAW plants.

Im not saying that all citizens should earn the same and I dont think youre so simple as to infer that from my posts, so lets can the communist cracks and keep this above-board This about going back to the capitalism that worked a few decades ago instead of the kleptocracy masquerading as capitlaism that we have today.