[Lemmy]

eureka eureka:

The dollar is, as I said, artificially high. It is high only because of unstable commodity prices.

That's a highly simplistic and mostly incorrect statement about the value of the dollar. I presume you're declaring it "high" in relation to the value of the US dollar. The reason for that is mostly US debt and few economists would regard the US debt, as a cause of economic phenomenon, artificial. Yes, the daily trend of our currency value is tied, in large measure, to commodity prices. But only within a narrow range and in the extreme short-run. Currency values still depend on larger economic factors than commodity prices, such as export demand, domestic stability, relative domestic interest rates, etc.

[andyt]

Dutch disease. Could've had Norway health, but we're not smart enough.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

Dutch disease. Could've had Norway health, but we're not smart enough.

Could'a had Norway's draconian drug (including pot) laws too. Wait...n/m

[peck420]

I fail to see how attacking one part of Canada's economy will be beneficial to the whole of Canada's economy.

We will only ever be as strong as our weakest link, and if we insist on pulling others down instead of raising ourselves up, we will be weak indeed.

I fully understand that Ontario and Alberta are world's apart, but why is Alberta's manufacturing not suffering to the extent that Ontario's is? We both produce products that face international competition? (This is a serious question.)

[BeaverFever]

Even if Alberta's non-Energy-related manufacturing (i.e. manufacturing of things that are not dependent on Energy sector activity) was suffering, that's only a small part of Alberta's total economy. The tail doesn't wag the dog here. The economic activity in Alberta that is driven by the energy sector totally dwarfs all other sectors of that province's economy and therefore, government and voter alike understand that the fortunes of the province rely on the fortunes of the energy sector.

In contrast, though Ontario happens to be a net energy exporter, most citizens (voters/taxpayers) in Ontario aren't connected to the energy sector and neither are most of the businesses. Most of the citizens and business in this part of the country are directly or indirectly reliant on the export of non-energy natural resources and manufactured goods, business and financial services, etc. Therefore, the economic activity in Ontario is more defined by energy consumers rather than energy producers. Accordingly, interests of the Ontario government lie in protecting/promoting those interests, not the interests of energy producers..

[eureka]

I think, Lemmy, that you will find at least as many economists saying that the dollar is artificially high and that the reason is commodity pricing in the main. Even if it were only wrt the American dollar, is that not 80% of our concern?

[eureka]

peck420 peck420:

I fail to see how attacking one part of Canada's economy will be beneficial to the whole of Canada's economy.

We will only ever be as strong as our weakest link, and if we insist on pulling others down instead of raising ourselves up, we will be weak indeed.

I fully understand that Ontario and Alberta are world's apart, but why is Alberta's manufacturing not suffering to the extent that Ontario's is? We both produce products that face international competition? (This is a serious question.)

Alberta's manufacturing is not suffering in the same way because it is strongly tied the oil and gas industry. Without researching, I suspect that other areas are not doing so well.

Further, Alberta does not have the sectors that are devastated: Auto, Transportation, to name a couple. Not long ago, an outfit in Cornwall moved to the US stating the high dollar as its reason just one of many. General Motors in Oshawa is about one third of the size it once was. Windsor is the same. That partly reflects also the disappearing healthcare advantage.

Wrt have and have not, it was argued that Ontario sends $21 billion more to Ottawa than it receives back in services. Ontario is short changed in that as no other province is. There used not to be any complaint about it here. It was part of being Canada. Now, it seems, being Canada is pushing oil and gas at the expense of the total economy and losing hundreds of thousands of jobs to create twenty or thirty thousand in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

[FieryVulpine]

Personally, I find the very idea of Ontario being the "lynchpin" of Canadian unity extremely myopic. Canada only came into being as a nation-state because it was convenient for the United Kingdom to grant us independence (i.e. it was not cost-effective for them to garrison us as a colony.) And even in 1867 Canadian unity was tenuous at best since the Maritimes were hesitant due the interests of Ontario and Quebec. As for the western provinces, our sole reason for existence was for Central Canada to exploit the resources of what was once Rupert's Land and very little more. Do I need to bring up MacDonald's National Policy like some High School social studies teacher?

McGuinty represents an archaic view of Canada that is coming increasingly irrelevant in an energy-hungry world. Let's face facts, it's becoming more difficult for Ontario's manufacturing sector to compete with Asia's cheap and plentiful labor. Combined with McGuinty's galling incompetence-- Ontario has a dark future ahead unless TPTB change their tune.

[dino_bobba_renno]

peck420 peck420:

I fail to see how attacking one part of Canada's economy will be beneficial to the whole of Canada's economy.

We will only ever be as strong as our weakest link, and if we insist on pulling others down instead of raising ourselves up, we will be weak indeed.

I fully understand that Ontario and Alberta are world's apart, but why is Alberta's manufacturing not suffering to the extent that Ontario's is? We both produce products that face international competition? (This is a serious question.)

Agree and good post.

Poor McSquinty, one day he will have to come to the realization that the manufacturing sector in North America is going the way of the dodo. Take a look at the US's manufacturing sector and how they're suffering and they don't have a petro-dollar bogeyman to blame. Like it or not we can't compete with countries like China who pay an average of $104/month to their workers.

On Redford, as much as some of her recent decisions have bothered me I think she's doing a good job on how she's handling the oil sands issue. Her approach is more about building support in a positive and constructive manner, it's just to bad we can't get some of the other politicians in this country to act in a similar manner.

[eureka]

FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:

Personally, I find the very idea of Ontario being the "lynchpin" of Canadian unity extremely myopic. Canada only came into being as a nation-state because it was convenient for the United Kingdom to grant us independence (i.e. it was not cost-effective for them to garrison us as a colony.) And even in 1867 Canadian unity was tenuous at best since the Maritimes were hesitant due the interests of Ontario and Quebec. As for the western provinces, our sole reason for existence was for Central Canada to exploit the resources of what was once Rupert's Land and very little more. Do I need to bring up MacDonald's National Policy like some High School social studies teacher?

McGuinty represents an archaic view of Canada that is coming increasingly irrelevant in an energy-hungry world. Let's face facts, it's becoming more difficult for Ontario's manufacturing sector to compete with Asia's cheap and plentiful labor. Combined with McGuinty's galling incompetence-- Ontario has a dark future ahead unless TPTB change their tune.

What does Canada before the creation of provinces from Rupertsland mean in this. We are talking of Canada as it is. Incidentally, Alberta and the others were originally maintained with a per capita cash allowance from the Canadian government. Read Ontario and Quebec. Why before that would they not simply have been exploited? They did not exist except as the hinterland for Canada.

You should actually read up a little on the National Policy.

It is not China that has been the problem. Canada's aerospace, automotive and transportation sectors were not those affected.

[DrCaleb]

eureka eureka:

You need to not read the posts and garner a little information a little information before puffing the Alberta chest.

Ontario is undeniably the economic engine of Canada and it s foolish to claim otherwise. with almost 40% of the population and the majority of Canada's manufacturing as well as the Financial hub of the country.

and that will not change.

And who buys all this product Ontario produces? The US? Nope. Alberta.

McSquinty puts his size 11 where his food hole is again.

One thing we notice about our new Premier is that she's trying to encourage the provinces to work together, instead of the "us vs them" menatality that's been holding us back.

Perhaps Ontairo needs to enter the 21st Century?

[DrCaleb]

As an example of McGuinty's error:

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/GBLEC04-eng.htm

Luckily, they are roughly divided by east/west production:

2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
Western Products: 310,594.10 383,882.70 273,202.50 299,350.20 348,663.20

Eastern Products 550,430.90 529,382.30 406,228.40 458,734.60 513,703.50

Petro dollar my ass!

[eureka]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

eureka eureka:

You need to not read the posts and garner a little information a little information before puffing the Alberta chest.

Ontario is undeniably the economic engine of Canada and it s foolish to claim otherwise. with almost 40% of the population and the majority of Canada's manufacturing as well as the Financial hub of the country.

and that will not change.

And who buys all this product Ontario produces? The US? Nope. Alberta.

McSquinty puts his size 11 where his food hole is again.

One thing we notice about our new Premier is that she's trying to encourage the provinces to work together, instead of the "us vs them" menatality that's been holding us back.

Perhaps Ontairo needs to enter the 21st Century?

It was the US.

Redford wants the provinces to work together to help Alberta's oil. What about working together for Canada.

21st. century! Back to hewing wood and drawing water. Be serious.

And I don't know what your statscan figures are supposed to be proving.

[DrCaleb]

eureka eureka:

Redford wants the provinces to work together to help Alberta's oil. What about working together for Canada.

What is the difference? And we have many more products, other than oil.

eureka eureka:

21st. century! Back to hewing wood and drawing water. Be serious.

Well, that may be your 21st century. Mine is one of medicine, manufacturing and Nanotech.

eureka eureka:

And I don't know what your statscan figures are supposed to be proving.

0:

Redford vs McGuinty.jpg [ 153.18 KiB | Viewed 80 times ]

It's pretty straight foreward. Match up 'manufacturing' with 'exports' by province. Since stats on interprovincial trade seem to be hard to find or non existant, take the two and find the difference. That's a rough estimate of manufacturing goods that weren't exported. So it's a rough idea of the value of interprovncial trade. You'll see that number rising from 2007 to 2010. And which provinces are the ones with the economies to import goods?

[mentalfloss]

andyt andyt:

Dutch disease. Could've had Norway health, but we're not smart enough.

It's totally the dutch disease. I'm not sure why the media hasn't caught on to this yet.