[bootlegga]

$1:

Canadians in lower income groups report poorer health than their wealthier counterparts, a poll for the Canadian Medical Association suggests.

The group's annual report card is being released today at its meeting in Yellowknife.

The gap in self-reported health status between income groups seems to be growing, with 39 per cent of those whose households earned less than $30,000 a year describing their health as excellent or very good compared with 68 per cent of those earning $60,000 or more.

"When it comes to the well-being of Canadians, the old saying that wealth equals health continues to ring true," Dr. John Haggie, president of the CMA, said in a release.

"What is particularly worrisome for Canada's doctors is that in a nation as prosperous as Canada, the gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' appears to be widening."

People in the lowest income bracket also reported accessing health-care services more often in the past month, 59 per cent, compared with 43 per cent among those earning the most income.

In 2009, there was no difference between lower and higher-income Canadians in whether they accessed health-care services within the past month.

Those with the lowest incomes were also more likely to report being diagnosed with a chronic condition, 41 per cent, than those with household incomes of $60,000 or more, 28 per cent.

Education also appeared to have an impact.

Canadians earning less than $30,000 a year and have less than a high school education were more likely to describe their health as fair or poor, 16 per cent, compared with those earning $60,000 or more, six per cent, and those with a university degree or higher, seven per cent.

The eating habits of Canadians earning $30,000 or less were more likely to be described as "OK" or "not very healthy," 33 per cent, than those earning the most, 23 per cent.

About half of those surveyed, 45 per cent, said there is too much to know about healthy eating.

In terms of eating habits, those earning the least were much less likely to say they ate five servings of fruits and vegetables every day or often, 50 per cent, compared with 66 per cent among those earning the most.

The same was true for physical activity levels and income: 52 per cent versus 57 per cent.

More than one in five Canadians, 22 per cent, said they'd delayed or cancelled a dentist appointment because of financial concerns.

Between July 25 and July 30, Ipsos Reid surveyed a nationally representative sample of 1,200 Canadian adults by telephone. The margin of error was plus or minus 2.8 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

The 2009 findings were based on an online survey of 3,223 Canadian adults by Ipsos between June 25 and July 11, 2009.

he CMA's annual meeting ends on Wednesday.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/wealth-equals- ... 08208.html

[OnTheIce]

With respect to the survey, perhaps wealth is only a part of the problem.

Many people who are living in poverty do so because of other reasons such as mental health & education.

Naturally, those who aren't mentally fit/stable enough to find employment or complete school will have a lower income and in turn, not take care of themselves properly despite the fact that "free" medical care is at their disposal.

[andyt]

It's about a lot more than medical care. Dental care can prevent health problems, which is why we should have it as part of medicare. Eating right takes money and time, neither of which the working poor have. But the biggest impact on health is the stress caused by high income disparity.

Lots of surveys from all over the world on this, it's what my sig is all about. We could actually save money as a country if we addressed these issues.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

But the biggest impact on health is the stress caused by high income disparity.

Chicken/Egg scenario.

Bad health due to low income or low income due to bad health?

Raydan made a good point in another topic:

$1:

I knew a girl that told me that she always had bad bosses... the reason was that she was a terrible employee. My ex-sister in law ALWAYS had problem neighbors, and always will, because she's the problem. So when someone makes a statement like this, look for the common denominator.

I've had a host of unstable/unreliable people that have worked for me over the years and the reason they're stuck making low wages and not advancing is because they have a piss-poor attitude and no doubt some underlying issues that make them act this way.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

But the biggest impact on health is the stress caused by high income disparity.

In the real world we call that envy.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

But the biggest impact on health is the stress caused by high income disparity.

Chicken/Egg scenario.

Bad health due to low income or low income due to bad health?

Not at all. Most of the poor aren't in such bad health that it keeps them from working most of their lives. They just die faster and are sicker beforehand. But if you think your scenario holds true, you should be advocating for a major health effort for poor people. Think of the productivity gains, and the future savings in healthcare we could get from it.

Raydan made a good point in another topic:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

$1:

I knew a girl that told me that she always had bad bosses... the reason was that she was a terrible employee. My ex-sister in law ALWAYS had problem neighbors, and always will, because she's the problem. So when someone makes a statement like this, look for the common denominator.

I've had a host of unstable/unreliable people that have worked for me over the years and the reason they're stuck making low wages and not advancing is because they have a piss-poor attitude and no doubt some underlying issues that make them act this way.

OK, what do you propose to do about that?

[andyt]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

andyt andyt:

But the biggest impact on health is the stress caused by high income disparity.

In the real world we call that envy.

You can call it whatever you like, it doesn't change the effects nor the cost to society.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

andyt andyt:

But the biggest impact on health is the stress caused by high income disparity.

In the real world we call that envy.

You can call it whatever you like, it doesn't change the effects nor the cost to society.

Worrying about others all the time must be rather boring, why don't you just work towards bettering your own financial state instead of envying mine!

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

Not at all. Most of the poor aren't in such bad health that it keeps them from working most of their lives. They just die faster and are sicker beforehand. But if you think your scenario holds true, you should be advocating for a major health effort for poor people. Think of the productivity gains, and the future savings in healthcare we could get from it.

Never did I say it prevented them from working, but their health, more so their mental health, prevents them from landing good jobs, finishing school and advancing through a career.

Quite often have I worked with people who were very capable and able to advance. It's their attitude and outlook that kept them stuck in dead-end positions.

andyt andyt:

OK, what do you propose to do about that?

We do need a greater focus on mental health issues in this Country. I think it's improving, but we have a long way to go. Especially regarding men. However, you can't save everyone from themselves and you can only offer help if it's requested.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

andyt andyt:

But the biggest impact on health is the stress caused by high income disparity.

In the real world we call that envy.

You can call it whatever you like, it doesn't change the effects nor the cost to society.

So your solution to envy would be provide poor people more money so they don't feel as envious of others which in turn, makes them more healthy?

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Never did I say it prevented them from working, but their health, more so their mental health, prevents them from landing good jobs, finishing school and advancing through a career.

Quite often have I worked with people who were very capable and able to advance. It's their attitude and outlook that kept them stuck in dead-end positions.

andyt andyt:

OK, what do you propose to do about that?

We do need a greater focus on mental health issues in this Country. I think it's improving, but we have a long way to go. Especially regarding men. However, you can't save everyone from themselves and you can only offer help if it's requested.

But their mental health issues were caused by the poverty they grew up in. I was talking with a woman who provided counselling to aboriginal children. She said she would make progress with them, but then they would just go back the the same dysfunctional environment, so the progress never stuck. Providing the kind of health care and support for adults that have already been damaged so that they do become productive people would cost a fortune - you ready to pay for that? And then what, they go into minimum wage jobs? Plenty of people in minimum wage jobs are not damaged, there just aren't enough well paying jobs to go around. So maybe these people we've healed feel a bit better about themselves, and show up to work regularly, but they'll just join the working poor that aren't mentally damaged, but still experience the same health effects of poverty. I'm all for a better mental health system in this country, but it has to be matched with a reduction in income disparity, specifically elevating people off the very bottom.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

But their mental health issues were caused by the poverty they grew up in.

Says who?

Did you just claim that people who have mental illness are all due to poverty?

I have some family and friends who have mental issues such as depression, anxiety, panic attacks who've all come from affluent, two parent homes. There are far more causes to mental illness than just poverty.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

But their mental health issues were caused by the poverty they grew up in.

Says who?

Did you just claim that people who have mental illness are all due to poverty?

I have some family and friends who have mental issues such as depression, anxiety, panic attacks who've all come from affluent, two parent homes. There are far more causes to mental illness than just poverty.

Did you just make a reductio ad absurdum argument? Really you're arguing against yourself when you say there are more causes to mental illness than just poverty, since you are agreeing with me that poverty is a cause of mental illness.

$1:

People with mental illness often live in chronic poverty. Conversely, poverty can be a significant risk factor for poor physical and mental health.

http://www.ontario.cmha.ca/backgrounders.asp?cID=25341

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Not at all. Most of the poor aren't in such bad health that it keeps them from working most of their lives. They just die faster and are sicker beforehand.

Well I think it goes without saying that alot of people with very poor chronic health conditions have difficulty holding down a meaningful job. I used to live in a mixed neighbourhood that had a lot of low income housing and all kinds of clearly unhealthy people hobling around on old beat-up walkers and clearly living off disability or some form of minimal social assitance. Go to any US ghetto and you see every other store is a medical supply store and all kinds of miserable looking "invalids" hobbling around. Clearly there is a link between being sick and being unable to earn a living.

I think all Andy's point quoted above illustrates is that if you're poor when you get sick, you'll stay poor whereas if you have a lucrative career before-hand there's a change that you'll be able to maintain a decent standard of living. People with Lucrative jobs often have generous disability entitlements, are more likely to have a decent equity in their homes, and more flexible working conditions that provide them with more time off or the ability to work from home, etc. There's also more incentive for people with a good income and high-demand skills to remain at work transfer to a more accomodating employment arrangment. Some poor shlub who shoveled shit for min wage is probably not going to be able keep his job after a debilitating illness and probably won't end up working his way up to better paying job.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

Did you just make a reductio ad absurdum argument? Really you're arguing against yourself when you say there are more causes to mental illness than just poverty, since you are agreeing with me that poverty is a cause of mental illness.

$1:

People with mental illness often live in chronic poverty. Conversely, poverty can be a significant risk factor for poor physical and mental health.

http://www.ontario.cmha.ca/backgrounders.asp?cID=25341

Nice dodge.

I never rejected the ideas poverty wasn't a cause of mental illness, I simply asked the question of chicken/egg scenario. Does poverty cause mental illness or does mental illness cause poverty?

You'd love us to believe that poverty causes people to have mental illness when in fact, the link you provided says otherwise. In fact, it almost takes the words out of my mouth:

$1:

Experiencing a mental illness can seriously interrupt a person's education or career path and result in diminished opportunities for employment. A lack of secure employment, in turn, affects one's ability to earn an adequate income. As a result, people may eventually drift into poverty.