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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:09 am
 


Gunnair wrote:
sandorski wrote:
Gunnair wrote:

Why would you care?


Why would you?


I'm a believer, you are not. What would be your point other than to troll for a fight?


Asking a question is not Trolling.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:45 am
 


Well good on your Johnny for seeing through the bullshit. I would agree the idea of a "loving caring omnipresent" God is so thoroughly busted by anyone taking a second to look at the world that it has to be wrapped in all sorts of ceremony and tradition to even work.

However even if we can demonstrably show that such a god is impossible it doesn't rule out the concept of a god in general.

That being said I have never seen anyone craft an argument that makes a creative being necessary for the universe to exist so I'm an Atheist. If someone who believes in god thinks they can make such an argument I would invite you to go ahead.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:19 am
 


God loves.

Man kills.

All else is errata.

Don't blame God for what some vile shit stains do. The were offered the path to a better place, just like the rest of us were too, and they chose otherwise. Leave them to the merciless Hell they deserve.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:43 am
 


I refuse to believe in Jeff...I see the posts, but there is no evidence of intelligent design behind them. :lol:

Personally, I've been anti religion for a long time. Organized religion is like fire, neither good nor evil, yet when harnessed by certain people has been responsible for both. It was the inspiration behind the great cathedrals, the Renaissance, universities, medicine, literacy and art. It was also the inspiration for the Crusades, Holy Wars, Jihad and 9-11. Even within the monolithic religions that have been responsible for great wrongs in the name of goodness, there are countless individuals who do good because of their beliefs and due their innate nature...these individuals give me faith that there may be something greater out there. I've resigned myself to the role of agnostic theist. So far no one has convinced me there is no God...so I don't really care because it has an almost negligible impact on my life. If belief brings someone joy and comfort, you're just an asshole for shitting on them for believing.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:03 am
 


Gunnair wrote:
Tricks wrote:
This should be interesting.

Personally, I don't understand faith, and I never will. But if someone wants to privately practice it, have at er. Try to influence policy with it, and then we got problems. I used to be pretty rabid in my anti-religion, but I'm trying to tone it down. :lol:


You continue to be da man!

Quote:
“So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.

Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none.

When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision.

When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.”

~ Chief Tecumseh


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:28 am
 


sandorski wrote:
Gunnair wrote:
sandorski wrote:

Why would you?


I'm a believer, you are not. What would be your point other than to troll for a fight?


Asking a question is not Trolling.


Sure it is. You've long since situated the estimate. You're no more looking for an answer here than Curt is musing on self control.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:30 am
 


CanadianJeff wrote:
Well good on your Johnny for seeing through the bullshit. I would agree the idea of a "loving caring omnipresent" God is so thoroughly busted by anyone taking a second to look at the world that it has to be wrapped in all sorts of ceremony and tradition to even work.

However even if we can demonstrably show that such a god is impossible it doesn't rule out the concept of a god in general.

That being said I have never seen anyone craft an argument that makes a creative being necessary for the universe to exist so I'm an Atheist. If someone who believes in god thinks they can make such an argument I would invite you to go ahead.


I don't think there are many out there that wish to waste their time on you, Jeff.

You've made up your mind and your invitations are not to try and convince you but to give you another opportunity to air your God issues.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:31 am
 


Thanos wrote:
God loves.

Man kills.

All else is errata.

Don't blame God for what some vile shit stains do. The were offered the path to a better place, just like the rest of us were too, and they chose otherwise. Leave them to the merciless Hell they deserve.


Yep.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:39 am
 


Fuxk livhten uo fuckaroo grumpy ol bitch its sunday ys ol bitch waht ta fuck fuckre good but bitch too gramps balls meet mluth kmn fookala fanook


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:14 am
 


Thanos wrote:
Fuxk livhten uo fuckaroo grumpy ol bitch its sunday ys ol bitch waht ta fuck fuckre good but bitch too gramps balls meet mluth kmn fookala fanook


Oh dear. Someone broke Thanos.





PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:45 am
 


Gunnair wrote:
sandorski wrote:
Asking a question is not Trolling.
Sure it is. You've long since situated the estimate. You're no more looking for an answer here than Curt is musing on self control.


The legalization debate is a nice distraction for me. I do not believe there is a "god", and I believe if there was a god who had power to prevent this slaughter, and he didn't, I would not worship that god. I might fear it, but any worship would be done begrudgingly. Self control isn't the problem, its a society that creates monsters because it glamourizes death and destruction.

God is irrelevant if he watches, but does nothing. The only thing we have control over is our own personal actions. You can choose to try to make a difference, and bring some peace to this world, or you can sit back and comment on what a sad state of affairs we are in and attack people who think they can make a difference. Maybe your god can help you out with that.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:05 am
 


It cannot be successfully argued by anyone that there is no GOD.

Good Orderly Direction

The way we live our lives, and treat others is strictly a personal choice.

You need not read or follow any religious tome, or attend/be a member of any organized group to simply 'Be Nice'.-'Good Orderly Direction'!


"Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of. But don't whip it out in public, and wave it around. And don't try shoving it down my throat"!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:25 am
 


The 20th century has proven that mankind does not need religion to commit untold atrocities since it was secular regimes like the Third Reich, Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, and Pol Pot's Cambodia are responsible for the deaths of millions. Oh, I know many atheists love to point out that Hitler was a lapsed Catholic and Stalin was once in a Russian Orthodox seminary school (or something like that) but they are missing the point. I believe that religion and ideology are merely reflections of mankind's better nature and darker impulses.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:33 am
 


Gunnair wrote:
It appears you assume that the only relationship with God is based on him doing stuff for you. Not always the case.


I guess there can be many aspects of a relationship with God. Some of them are simply belief that living a good life will secure a place in God's heaven. That's a very positive aspect of belief in God, as it "codifies" moral behaviour and gives it a reward. Contrary to what some will tell you, however, it's not the only way to lead a truly moral life. That can be done in a totally secular way too. The secular way, though, promises no reward except the satisfaction stemming from being kind, compassionate and principled.

Quote:
The old stand by of God hears all prayers but doesn't answer them is the challenge of faith that religious people have.


I agree that that is a test of faith. What I tend to believe, however, is that since there are no grounds to believe that prayer will sway God's intervention, prayer has no use except to comfort the one who prays, in a mental sense but not in a concrete sense. Prayers can be asking for totally different things, such as when two armies face each other on a field of battle. The prayers on one side will succeed, the prayers on the other side will fail, and it is not always the morally right side that will succeed.

The "granting of prayers" is entirely random, yet the failure of prayer is accepted by the faithful as "God's will" and the success of prayer is evidence of his love. It's a strange self-delusion. The faithful see it as a strength; the doubters see it as weakness. The faithful see it as support sought from without, from a greater power. The doubters see it as a lack of self-confidence and self-reliance. "God helps those who help themselves" is something that comes closest to a thing that can be believed by both groups.

A man and wife are stranded on the roof of their house amid rising flood waters. A boat is sent to rescue them and they refuse. "God will provide," they say. A helicopter comes to pluck them off the roof and they refuse again, saying "God will provide." As the flood waters rise to engulf them they cry out, "God, why hast thou forsaken us?" God answers, "Forsaken you? I sent you a boat and a helicopter!"

Quote:
I'm not quite sure why you care enough to post this since it does not appear you have faith or a relationship with a divine being.


I care, because like most other people, I'm trying to make my own personal sense out of things. Hence what I wrote above rambles a bit, because so many thoughts demand to be crammed into the limited time I have for writing something like this out.

Make of it what you will. There's plenty to disagree with, I'm sure, and I don't blame people for disagreeing. We each have to try to figure out our own way,


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:36 am
 


FieryVulpine wrote:
The 20th century has proven that mankind does not need religion to commit untold atrocities since it was secular regimes like the Third Reich, Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, and Pol Pot's Cambodia are responsible for the deaths of millions. Oh, I know many atheists love to point out that Hitler was a lapsed Catholic and Stalin was once in a Russian Orthodox seminary school (or something like that) but they are missing the point. I believe that religion and ideology are merely reflections of mankind's better nature and darker impulses.


Religion mandates atrocity. Secularism does not.


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