[Blue_Nose]

Prestwick Prestwick:

I'm not saying that! The poppy advocates peace! How many more times do I have to say that! That is not what I said and you know it!

What I am complaining about are those who try to devalue the message that the poppy provides, saying it glorifies war and so forth!

And as for preventing war? It is sad to say, but that will never happen. Even if Bush and Blair pulled out of the fiasco that is Iraq, even if the West decided not to get involved in anything ever again and just dedicate their work to the peaceful negotiation of conflict...there will always be a region that will break up into civil war, there will always be a despot who will invade another nation or violently put down a region of their nation.

There will always be Darfurs, Bosnias and Congos. And as long as the UN sends soldiers to keep the peace and enforce agreements in these areas, young Canadians will die and will be maimed.

Stop trying to devalue the work that the Royal Legions do. I understand that you support peace but please, respect the views and values of others.

I certainly not devaluing anything - I wear my red poppy like everyone else, and I'm not some "peacenik" that thinks war is something that can be fully prevented.

My point is that when this issue arose, the reaction around this forum was that advocating peace was somehow disrespectful of the meaning behind Remembrance Day. The Legion didn't come out and say, "Our poppy represents peace, what is all this fuss?" - they opposed it. For all the flaws this white poppy campaign has, the message of peace was the most prominant, and people were so automatically opposed to it, without realizing that it has more to do with Remembrance Day than supporting current activities does.

You and I don't have a different opinion of what this all means, I don't think, but some seem to have missed the point of remembering.

[Tricks]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Tricks Tricks:

It is to support all fallen troops. From the Boer war to Afghanistan. And remember the sacrifice they made so we can discuss this freely. Somehow, I doubt the white poppy could do the same.

Yes, but what does "support" mean? Does it make a difference to that we wear a poppy and have a ceremony for them if we aren't concerned with preventing it from happening again? You can't "support" fallen troops - they're dead, and no poppy, red or white, is going to bring them back.

If you actually honour the fact that they died for peace, then why turn around and say those who advocate peace are being disrespectful? Aren't they supporting the very thing for which the fallen fought?

I never said they are being disrespectful. I said they are forgetting who died. They are wearing it for peace, we wear red ones for the remembrance of the soldiers. Part of that remembrance is remembering what they fought for. Again, it is redundant.

[Numure]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Numure Numure:

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Though, a holiday is a day when people don't goto work so they can do the traditions of that day, and many provinces do that... Eh.

I've always worked on remembrance day... Wasnt even aware it was a holiday.

In Quebec in Ontario, the sometimes don't make it a "holiday", but Private Corperations can feel free to make it so for their own employee's if they so wish.

Oh really? Just like corporations can make any other day a holiday. It's not a holiday, live with it.

[Tricks]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

How is advocating peace disrespectful or selfish?[/b] Honouring those who fought for peace by fighting for peace is making sure what they sacrificed is not in vain.

It isn't disrespectful. But any one should realise that will never happen. You can advocate peace all you want, but it will be in vain. They fought against turanny and for the freedom of this land. They fought for the freedom of anything. We are a free country because of their sacrifices. The poppy does so many things to so many people. Why don't these people where the regular poppy in the name of peace? Lots of people do. The poppy can mean anything to anyone. There is no need for a new one when it is already so versatile.

$1:

Helping disabled veterans vs. trying to make sure they don't become disabled in the first place - if I were the one in the wheelchair, I think I know which I'd support.

How is buying a white poppy trying to make sure they don't become disabled? You are saying we want peace, sweet, who doesn't? But being realistic is a little bit different.

[Tricks]

Numure Numure:

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Numure Numure:

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Though, a holiday is a day when people don't goto work so they can do the traditions of that day, and many provinces do that... Eh.

I've always worked on remembrance day... Wasnt even aware it was a holiday.

In Quebec in Ontario, the sometimes don't make it a "holiday", but Private Corperations can feel free to make it so for their own employee's if they so wish.

Oh really? Just like corporations can make any other day a holiday. It's not a holiday, live with it.

Numure is right Mr_C. It isn't a holiday.

[Wally_Sconce]

I've been wearing a red poppy for about 2 weeks. If there is even a remote chance that a white poppy taints or confuses the message that I'm making, then I'm not interested.

It does seem unfortunate that an antiwar movement is getting bad press, but get your own day, and get your own symbol, eh!

[Blue_Nose]

Tricks Tricks:

They are wearing it for peace, we wear red ones for the remembrance of the soldiers. Part of that remembrance is remembering what they fought for. Again, it is redundant.

I agree.

So really, this whole issue is over people disrespecting the Legion, by misrepresenting the meaning of their red poppies, as well as the people who wear them. That's entirely valid, and also the reason I'd never wear a white poppy.

It's nothing against the memory of the troops, though, and that's been my point.

[Wally_Sconce]

Tricks Tricks:

Numure Numure:

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Numure Numure:

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Though, a holiday is a day when people don't goto work so they can do the traditions of that day, and many provinces do that... Eh.

I've always worked on remembrance day... Wasnt even aware it was a holiday.

In Quebec in Ontario, the sometimes don't make it a "holiday", but Private Corperations can feel free to make it so for their own employee's if they so wish.

Oh really? Just like corporations can make any other day a holiday. It's not a holiday, live with it.

Numure is right Mr_C. It isn't a holiday.

whatever. I'm still not going to work on Monday.

[SJ-24]

Interesting thread. It shows that many people here are pretty Liberal in their thinking and many here are very conservative in theirs. But what about that White Poppy?

The white poppy was created in England to reflect that the wearer was a widow. Someone who's husband had given all so that society could be free of the Hitler extreme makeover of the world...sort of like the Muslim extreme makeover....

So where do I stand on this issue. The White Poppy is not about peace, it is about a very poorly planned PR ploy where someone didn't do their homework...which isn't unusual in todays youth. If it ain't on the internet it must be a new idea.

I shall be taking a small spray bottle with me full of red paint on the 11th and adding a little color to those who dare to present themselves at the parade and promote a very bad tasting PR ploy. I shall turn their white red because as a veteran I am very insulted by this because they are disrespecting those widows. I shall correct the wrong. I am not the only one as I have had calls from across Canada from those who like myself were insulted by these so called peaceful people. Unlike some here, I am willing to stand up to a commercialization of a moment in our lives that has an actual meaning. Not a very disrespectful PR ploy. If any of these fools can prove to me that they lost a husband or wife to a war, I shall proudly stand by them, but since so many older soldiers have died, I doubt many widows still exist and my count of Afghanistan dead of 42 indicates only about 30 widows and widowers have the right to wear white. The red poppy is for the rest of us; including the peacenicks.

If you want to promote peace, walk around with a big sign and promote it like a normal person. Not a scab stealing a honourable means of showing who you are, the spouse of a dead soldier.

[ridenrain]

[Prestwick]

I'll remember the raiders of Telemark by the way Lily ^^

[Prestwick]

It receives alot of media attention here in the UK and its like an excellent adventure story that most kids can only dream of!

An incredible achievement. If Amundsen (the great explorer) was alive to see it, he would have been proud.

[Winnipegger]

Manitoba Statutory Holidays

$1:

Remembrance Day (November 11) is not a General Holiday under Manitoba labour legislation, but requires compulsory closing of all businesses, with some specified exceptions.

When I was a kid, all businesses and schools remained open. At 11:00am on November 11, we all had to stop everything to observe 2 minutes of silence. That's the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. That's more fitting than just a day off work. No one will do anything special during a day off work.

Besides, I strongly feel the limit must be 10 statutory days off work throughout the year, including provincial and federal holidays. There are 365 days per year, but only 260 week days. With 10 holidays it means only 250 working days. At 8 hours per day that's exactly 2000 hours. But vacation comes out of those 2000 hours, and many people only work 7.5 hours per day after deducting lunch and coffee breaks. When is work going to get done? Should this country be saved if we're going to be just a bunch of slackers? I'm focussing more on enjoying life now, so harping about "slackers" may sound odd from me, but 10 holidays per year is enough. Work has to get done if you expect to get paid.

When I worked for the city government in 1998, holidays were:
New Year's Day
Good Friday
Easter Monday
Victoria Day
Canada Day
August Civic Holiday (first Monday in August)
Labour Day
Thanksgiving
Remembrance Day
Christmas Day
Boxing Day

That's 11 days already. We're already 1 day over the limit. Honouring 2 minutes of silence instead of a day off work for Remembrance Day is a good start. Taking only one of Good Friday or Easter Monday is another. A 4 day weekend is ridiculous, businesses don't get that.

As for poppies: the Blood Red Poppy is trademarked by the Royal Canadian Legion, not poppies per say. After this controversy, I tried to buy a white poppy in Winnipeg. Wasn't able to find one for sale. The red poppy signifies the sacrifice fallen solders made in war. The White Peace Poppy signifies the belief that there are better ways to resolve differences than war; that the road to peace is peace, not war. Defending the country is important, but in the last few decades there have been far too many unnecessary wars. A white poppy is perfectly fine and sends an appropriate message.

[PluggyRug]

It's about time some people on this forum knew the difference between peace and anti-war symbols.

[Tricks]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Tricks Tricks:

They are wearing it for peace, we wear red ones for the remembrance of the soldiers. Part of that remembrance is remembering what they fought for. Again, it is redundant.

I agree.

So really, this whole issue is over people disrespecting the Legion, by misrepresenting the meaning of their red poppies, as well as the people who wear them. That's entirely valid, and also the reason I'd never wear a white poppy.

It's nothing against the memory of the troops, though, and that's been my point.

Then I think we are kinda on the same page