[Thanos]

[N_Fiddledog]

Thanos Thanos:

Ah, but Evangelicals like Phil Robertson have an answer to that one. Wipes out Leviticus, unless they need it.

Have you not heard of New Covenant Theology?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Covenant_Theology

[Guy_Fawkes]

Ah so the bible is the word of God, except for the old testament which is obsolete. Well not all of the old testament, the laws we like are still the word of god. I believe that's called cherry picking right?

Bah who cares, re-invent it as much as you like. So long as you are not trying to hurt anyone or take away someone else's right go nuts. If you think buttsechs is a sin, so what. Just don't walk up to someone and say "you fuck butts? You're just as bad as people who fuck animals, fuck children, rape and steal from the poor!" because that would make you a HUGE asshole.

[bootlegga]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Ah, but Evangelicals like Phil Robertson have an answer to that one. Wipes out Leviticus, unless they need it.

Have you not heard of New Covenant Theology?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Covenant_Theology

That's the key phrase right there...still, I find it interesting how many Christians demand an eye-for-an-eye when it comes to murderers or want the 10 Commandments in the lobby of the Law court.

[N_Fiddledog]

I didn't read the article. I just knew what it was, so I did a quick search to show you.

Aren't there like different levels, or different ways of looking at things, to show you what you lose from the old?

The Muslims have something similar, but different. As I understand that one it's called "abrogation", and it's more black and white. The Koran is the final word on anything, but if a later passage contradicts an earlier passage you take the later one. As far as I know, it's that simple.

It's interesting though, because although both NTC and abrogation work in a similar manner towards the shared purpose of explaining contradictions you get a totally opposite result. With NTC you wind up in a spot where you're preaching the mercy and tolerance of the New Testament; with Muslim abrogation you wind up with the devolved, barbaric savagery of the teachings from Medina. Look into it, you'll see what I mean.

[fifeboy]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I didn't read the article. I just knew what it was, so I did a quick search to show you.

Aren't there like different levels, or different ways of looking at things, to show you what you lose from the old?

The Muslims have something similar, but different. As I understand that one it's called "abrogation", and it's more black and white. The Koran is the final word on anything, but if a later passage contradicts an earlier passage you take the later one. As far as I know, it's that simple.

It's interesting though, because although both NTC and abrogation work in a similar manner towards the shared purpose of explaining contradictions you get a totally opposite result. With NTC you wind up in a spot where you're preaching the mercy and tolerance of the New Testament; with Muslim abrogation you wind up with the devolved, barbaric savagery of the teachings from Medina. Look into it, you'll see what I mean.

So AMEN is the final word on everything? I can agree with that

[DrRosen]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

With NTC you wind up in a spot where you're preaching the mercy and tolerance of the New Testament; with Muslim abrogation you wind up with the devolved, barbaric savagery of the teachings from Medina. Look into it, you'll see what I mean.

The savagery of Islam, historically, pales in comparison to he savagery of Christianity. I suggest reading "A Splendid Exchange" by William Bernstein which contains a masterful examination of the interaction between the Islamic and Christian worlds in the middle ages. Of particular interest is the savagery of the Portuguese in their attempts to wrest the spice trade from the Muslims in the 16th century.

[N_Fiddledog]

That's kind of true. Christianity and all sorts of ideologies have empowered all sorts of atrocities, but no collection of atrocities dwarf those done in Islam's name. In that you are incorrect. Also the more relevant thing is Islam doesn't just permit such things, the abrogated ideology demands them, and they're still happening.

It's a lengthy debate though, and we're discussing the Duck Dynasty thing right now, aren't we? Post a different thread on the subject if you like, and we can discuss it.

[DrRosen]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

but no collection of atrocities dwarf those done in Islam's name. In that you are incorrect. Also the more relevant thing is Islam doesn't just permit such things, the abrogated ideology demands them, and they're still happening.

Pure post-911 bullshit revisionism. For the record, I'm in the second year of my PhD in medieval history at the University of Florida. My Masters thesis was an examination of the Mamluck slave system. Muslims following their doctrines have been far, far, far less responsible for atrocities than Christians ignoring theirs or justifying such behavior in the name of said beliefs.

[N_Fiddledog]

Cool, so you're exactly the person I want to talk to then.

I've been told the exact opposite to what you appear to believe from people who lay claim to scholarly credentials at least at a par, or beyond your own. Presently I'm reading Ceclia Holland. Just kidding. It's true, but I'm just kidding. Fiction right.

I hold off on taking credentials too seriously though. The recent case of Reza Azlan lying about his credentials has me skeptical concerning such claims. I'm forced to kind of judge each bit of knowledge on how much sense it makes based on stuff like does it use a primary source, or a preponderance of secondary evidence, or does it just make more sense based on other stuff I think I know.

Mamelukes fascinate me, no matter how they're spelled (I know there are many spellings). I don't know near as much about Mamluqs as I want to. I know a little. I know enough to ask questions. I'm really interested in Muslim slavery in general. Such a wide variety of claims. All Muslim slaves did not have the claim to glory the Mamlouks did. I know that much. But how do we know which sources to believe there? I'd like to ask somebody about that one. I'd even like to know what the correct, or at least the most broadly accepted spelling of Mamluck is, and why?

Please do post your claims concerning the quality and quantity of Muslim atrocities versus Christian on a separate thread. I'd love the opportunity to learn more. I'd be lying if I said the possibility of exposing you for a fraud doesn't interest me as well. It doesn't really matter which way it turns out though. In all honesty I'd enjoy either possibility of learning from you, or exposing you equally.

[Thanos]

Your degree from Glenn Beck University is probably going to be considerably less valuable in this debate than the one Doc Rosen has.

[Gunnair]

Thanos Thanos:

Your degree from Glenn Beck University is probably going to be considerably less valuable in this debate than the one Doc Rosen has.

F Dog may not have a degree in Islamonomy, but he did stay in at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[N_Fiddledog]

Sorry boys. Progs are not invited if that's your only credential. Anyway you won't get extra points for mocking, so seeing as that's all you've got it won't interest you anyway.

I'm actually almost hoping I'm wrong on the facts here. I like to learn stuff from a genuine expert. I'm not optimistic that's what we're dealing with, but I am almost hoping.

[Gunnair]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Sorry boys. Progs are not invited. Anyway you won't get extra points for mocking, so seeing as that's all you've got it won't interest you anyway.

I'm actually almost hoping I'm wrong on the facts here. I like to learn stuff from genuine experts. I'm not optimistic that's what we're dealing with, but I am almost hoping.

If Beckers are invited, then it's an open show. And yes, there's plenty of points for mocking. If you like, I can blast out a few extra copies of the Hurt Feelings Report if you need one.

[N_Fiddledog]

Whose a Becker?

So we have to pick sides and name-call now? Is that how it works? Am I to pretend you listen to Reverend Al and call you a Sharptonian, or something? No thanks. Childish.

Seriously though Gunnair. I'm curious about something. Do you know anything about any subject ever? I don't think I've ever heard you offer anything like a piece of actual information. At least DR offers to bring something to the table. If all you ever have is name-calling, mocking and insults why should I care what you have to say?