[DerbyX]

PimpBrewski123 PimpBrewski123:

Ok, since I am not an expert here.

That sorta seems interesting Derb. So, in order for the Conservatives to have their own reform, that would implicate more power to the Bloc having seats in the Senate? That would seem absurd mate.

Duceppe, as useless as he is, does not need any more reasons to bitch about anything. Then, he would probably use it as any excuses, not that he needs any, to defend Quebec's interest and that's all he can come up with and nothing else.

That is the point. None of the 3E senate supporters seem to be factoring this in. They seem to think that a 3E senate environment will mean hoards of Canadians "seeing the light" and voting con.

Nothing is further from the truth.

We'll see bloc/PQ senators before the ink dries on Harpers bill.

[commanderkai]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Open a few books on the subject or is your University not bothering to teach basic Canadian politics and law in its PolySci program?

Wait. You expect me to listen to anything you write, after you attack me personally...once again? No, Derby. That's not how the world works.

Maybe once you learn respect, politeness, and calmness, then I'll actually read what you write. Until then, I really don't care what you write.

But please, keep on attacking me Derby, because it shows what a little man you are.

[DerbyX]

commanderkai commanderkai:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Open a few books on the subject or is your University not bothering to teach basic Canadian politics and law in its PolySci program?

OFF TOPIC

[commanderkai]

Derby, if you want to discuss Israel, early Christianity, or personal attacks on me there are other topics for this. Don't go off topic.

[Thanos]

DerbyX DerbyX:

That is the point. None of the 3E senate supporters seem to be factoring this in. They seem to think that a 3E senate environment will mean hoards of Canadians "seeing the light" and voting con.

Nothing is further from the truth.

We'll see bloc/PQ senators before the ink dries on Harpers bill.

Not really. All 3E means is that the power of appointment is taken away from the PMO and given to voters. Triumph of democracy, blah-blah-blah. It doesn't spell the end of partisanship because the electorate is just as wildly partisan as the politicans are.

As far as I'm concerned, right now, we'd be double-fucked with a 3E if it existed today. I have no reason to believe that the Senate wouldn't be as hopelessly splintered along party lines as the Commons has been since 2006. Going by the political debauchery in Washington DC right now, in which by a perversion of basic arithmetic, 41 votes are somehow able to negate the other 59 , I have nothing but doubts now about the Senate altogether. It's almost to the point where I'm almost ready to believe that an outright abolition of the Parliamentary senate would be better for the country anyway. It would be better than the bibery and whoredom that the Yanks have to go through during the so-called Senate "amendment" process that seems to render every legistlation from the lower house null, void, and meaningless.

[DerbyX]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Derby, if you want to discuss Israel, early Christianity, or personal attacks on me there are other topics for this. Don't go off topic.

I did. You cried about personal attacks. You posted this: "So the Conservatives have gained control of the Senate. Well, hopefully this will get a few bills passed, including Senate reform."

It displays a quite frankly revealing lack of knowledge about Canadian government made all the worse by the fact you claim to be a polysci major at Windsor University.

You should already know that senate reform cannot be done by a wave of the HOC wand. You should also be smart enough to know that bills get passed all the time without a con majority in the senate.

What you really meant was "finally conservative agenda bills will get passed". Big difference mate.

Nice dodge on the act of war angle. I didn't figure you would come right out and admit that Israel is committing an act of war by declaring captured land as part of their country.

I just want you to acknowledge the precedent.

[commanderkai]

DerbyX DerbyX:

I did. You cried about personal attacks. You posted this: "So the Conservatives have gained control of the Senate. Well, hopefully this will get a few bills passed, including Senate reform."

I believe the whole "personal attack" option, being not allowed in the forums, was rhetorical. As in, cut it out.

$1:

It displays a quite frankly revealing lack of knowledge about Canadian government made all the worse by the fact you claim to be a polysci major at Windsor University.

Take it up with the University of Windsor, then. Also, go and tell them what a terrible school they are, along with the numerous other statements you've made about my school. Please, go ahead.

$1:

You should already know that senate reform cannot be done by a wave of the HOC wand. You should also be smart enough to know that bills get passed all the time without a con majority in the senate.

Maybe I was referring to the bills stalled. Maybe I was referring to a few more bills, present and future. The fact you take the 'personal attack/attack on UWin' shows who you really are.

$1:

Nice dodge on the act of war angle. I didn't figure you would come right out and admit that Israel is committing an act of war by declaring captured land as part of their country.

I just want you to acknowledge the precedent.

Sigh. There is no dodge. I've told you before. If you want to discuss Israeli politics, there are topics for that. Harper appointing five senators has little, if any, to do with Israel.

Unless you think he's some Zionist bent on sucking the blood of all Muslims, or something.

[PluggyRug]

Hail Caeser said the senate, {we will see him off at the earliest opportunity).

Why are you people arguing about the senate, the only reform is to bury it into pit of long forgotten leaches.

Do I need a [/rant]?

[DerbyX]

EDIT BY MOD

[Regina]

BACK TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC OR THIS IS LOCKED

[Proculation]

Lemmy Lemmy:

So Harper's appointed 33 senators now. 33 senators at $131,000/yr. Nice one, err, 33, Uncle Stevie. That's quite a selfish spending spree you've gone on, buying yourself a Senate with our tax dollars in the middle of a recession. Oh wait, I forgot, Ayn Rand tells you selfishness is a virtue. But how can they fit all those bodies in the chambers? Mike Duffy's ass alone takes up a couple of cubic metres.

First, the senate is still there and there's no reform. So, the seats had to be filled.

Second, I'm for a reform but against what the CPP wants, The Senate should not be a second Lower chamber. It needs to represent the different regions of Canada like it is right now. 24 senators for Ontario, Quebec, Prairies, Maritimes, etc. But, I agree for an election of senators.

I'm very happy of the appointment of Jean-Hugues Boisvenu. He's a very respected person here in Québec for the association he runs (Association des Familles de Personnes Assassinées ou Disparues du Québec) (Murdered or Missing Persons' Families' Association (MMPFA)).

[Lemmy]

Proculation Proculation:

First, the senate is still there and there's no reform. So, the seats had to be filled.

Two questions: 1) Why?; if there's a sound answer to question #1 then; 2) Why right now? Why not, say, 3 years from now? I guess that was kind-of 3 questions.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

So what do you propose as an alternative?

Leave the seats empty?

Yes. Shut the goddamn thing down altogether.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

It's often easy to sit back and judge, but come up with a solution if you don't like the status quo.

I just did. Shut 'er down. Less politicians = more democracy.

That's not possible. (Right now)

Let's look at the situation as it stands. Shutting down the Senate is a long, long process if it was ever to happen. Changing the culture within the Senate is on it's way.

So in this case, how does Harper handle the situation differently?

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Let's look at the situation as it stands. Shutting down the Senate is a long, long process if it was ever to happen. Changing the culture within the Senate is on it's way.

So in this case, how does Harper handle the situation differently?

Take the $4M/year he just spent on 33 people's salaray and give it to 300 unemployed people instead. Then anounce that there will be a referendum on Senate reform so the Libs and NDPs have no choice but to accept the popular vote, which would surely be in favour of reform. I don't have a problem with Harper putting Cons in the Senate. I question why it needs to be done when we're broke. It's like a bankrupt losing hockey team spending money on extra cheerleaders.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Let's look at the situation as it stands. Shutting down the Senate is a long, long process if it was ever to happen. Changing the culture within the Senate is on it's way.

So in this case, how does Harper handle the situation differently?

Take the $4M/year he just spent on 33 people's salaray and give it to 300 unemployed people instead. Then anounce that there will be a referendum on Senate reform so the Libs and NDPs have no choice but to accept the popular vote, which would surely be in favour of reform. I don't have a problem with Harper putting Cons in the Senate. I question why it needs to be done when we're broke. It's like a bankrupt losing hockey team spending money on extra cheerleaders.

Not that easy.

A referendum is fine, but you need 100%, unanimous support in the House at the Federal level to make such changes to the Constitution. Are all Federal MP's going to support such changes? Hell no.

If you get past that, you need a majority vote from the Provinces to make a change.That's highly unlikely as well.

In 2006 Harper was pushing forward with his agenda to change the Senate. The changes wouldn't require a change to the Constitution. Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland stepped in and told Harper that they wouldn't support such changes.

In the end, Harper had 1 option. Fill the vacant seats.

Looking at the facts and the reality of the situation, there wasn't an alternative situation.