[roger-roger]

Some of the recuits we get behave worse then toddlers, since toddlers do not know any better. Your right though some people just are not cut out to be teachers.

[roger-roger]

When it comes down to it, some teachers could be soldiers and some soldiers could definately be teachers. Why are we compairing the two again?

Oh right pay, at times I feel like I am over paid, ie sitting in my office skiming through the news and posting on here. Other times I feel I am underpaid, pumping diesle into a LAVIII at 0230 with freezing rain and a 45 kmph wind. So it balances itself out, I think teachers see their job as the same.

[ShepherdsDog]

You have the option of manually adjusting their attitudes though. You raise your voice, or even look at a student like you're annoyed......I'm glad I work with adults now.

[mtbr]

Teachers are over paid . Part time job full time excellent pay. There are a few good teachers out there but the UNION doesn't let teachers get rewarded for work put into the job or not put into the job.

[mtbr]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

What about professional athletes who get umpteen million dollars per contract? Are they worth that kind of money, for what they provide to society?

No they aren't but the fans pay their salaries.(most cases)

[ShepherdsDog]

they also benefit indirectly from taxpayers. Local governments also give money to the teams.

[ShepherdsDog]

mtbr mtbr:

Teachers are over paid . Part time job full time excellent pay. There are a few good teachers out there but the UNION doesn't let teachers get rewarded for work put into the job or not put into the job.

Where does this part time junk come from? I put 30 hrs a week in the classroom and a further 15 - 20 hrs in extra curricular activities, lesson preperation, student assessment, class administration, reports and marking.

My wife was the principal, she usually put in 50 - 60 hrs a week teaching and doing administration. Most, but not all, of the other teachers were all in school by 8:30 AM and it was about 4:30 - 5:30PM when they left.

I worked as an enginner for almost 10 yrs and the hours and paper work we put in there were usually a lot less than what I had put in teaching.

[Zipperfish]

I imagine it depends on if you ask a soldier or a teacher.

[xerxes]

mtbr mtbr:

Teachers are over paid . Part time job full time excellent pay. There are a few good teachers out there but the UNION doesn't let teachers get rewarded for work put into the job or not put into the job.

It is NOT a part time job. Teachers do get summers off, but like ShepDog said, most teachers days go from 7AM to 7PM plus weekends. Throw in classes full of bratty kids and then tell me it's a part time job.

[Freakinoldguy]

I think we'e missing the point here. Neither is worth more than the other. They are both part of the system, which, without one or the otherl, the system breaks down.

Value is subjective and open to personal interpretation, but after working as the standards chief in a fleet school I can assure you that uneducated sailors are of no value to the fleet and a drain on resources, much the same as a teacher would be in a civil crisis or attempting to further their countries policies.

Personally I think you need them both operating at a high level of professionalism in order to maximize their different, but equally valuable contribution to society.

[Streaker]

Teachers, quite frankly, perform a vastly more valuable service.

[Axeman]

I don't want to rehash old debates, but there are a few facts that need to be stated about the teaching profession:
#1 Teachers are not overpaid. There isn't A SINGLE other profession that requires 5 years of postsecondary education that pays so poorly. It takes 12 years to reach the top of the pay grid in Ontario boards. After 12 years, average teacher salary in Ontario is about $83,000. But, when you consider a 30 year teaching career, almost 40% of the career is spent climbing the pay grid, the average salary for a teacher, over their career, is about $68,000.
#2 Teachers don't get more vacation days than other professions. In a previous debate, we compared teaching time to the work time of police. Teachers work 41 of 52 weeks per year, 5 days per week, which is 205 work days per year. Police work 4-days on, 4 days off and average 4 weeks holiday. This works out to about to about 165 work days per year. Dentists, by way of comparing another profession requiring similar schooling to teachers earn average salaries around $210K per year and work an average of 180 days per year.
#3 Teachers don't GET pensions. They pay for them. The Ontario Teachers Pension is not a 'perk' or a 'benefit'. It's a deduction from teachers' salaries. The pension plan is FULLY funded by its members. You can't begrudge teachers for being smart about how they save for their retirements.

Now, I'm not going to take a side in this debate, because it's a RETARDED debate in the first place. Both teachers and soldiers are, IMHO, underpaid for the tasks we demand of them, but comparing their worth, in terms of money, is not meaningful. Frankly, you couldn't pay me enough to do either job (or police work either, for that matter). As I said earlier, the folks that bash teachers do so because they were assholes as teenagers and their memories of highschool are jaded.

[Gunbunny]

I have to agree with you xerxes. As I have a intamate knowledge of both sides as a soldier and an instructor, and with a wife that is a teacher. I know the hours and the sacrifices that a Soldier makes. The extra time that I have put in to go the extra mile for my soldiers is a constant. On the other hand my wife teaches from 8:30 to 3:30 5 days a week. On top of that she puts in at least another 10-15 hours in marking and such. She as a newer teacher also puts time into being the ATA Secritary for the ATA Local, and she also volenteers her time as the vice preseident of the the North Eastern Teachers Convention Accociation.

These two profesions are so diferent and yet so allike that they cannot be compaired. They serve two different purposes, yet are both significantly rewarding.

[bootlegga]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Bibbi Bibbi:

Well, if teachers are "grossly overpaid" then so are soldiers. The reality however is that most soldiers could not handle the responsibility of a teacher and many teachers could not handle the responsibility of a soldier. Of course, those that have no experience as either a teacher or soldier are in no position to indicate which is worth more, either.

I have the good sense to be neutral on this question.

I've been a member of the military and a teacher. I had some excellent instructors in the military and had some teachers that would likely have made formidable NCOs. Both fulfil different roles within a society, so it's like comparing apples to oranges.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

and anyone who thinks teaching is a PT job, they should try it. Teaching hours may only be 6 hours a day, but with all the prep work, marking, and other 'duties' that get tacked on, it's easy to wind up working a 60 hour week.

[DerbyX]

This topic is kinda like "Who is more important, a plumber or an electrician"?

Kinda depends on the situation doesn't it. Stupid and inflamatory question imho.