[BigDubUSA]

Pop-O Pop-O:

yes, we are topping the charts, and again right, its not funny.

If you took the population of Canada and compare it to the population of America, would those "stats" remain the same? We have a lot more people here in the USA and it does take more power to bring electricty, water, gas and other products to each person. So I would say yes, our "ranking would be higher.

As far as America "burning itself out", I don't see that happening at all. Yes, we've spent a lot of money on this war. Why? Because NO ONE else would. So who suffers for it, we do in America. We may end up paying higher prices for thing and also paying more taxes, but it will all work out.

I'm all for being proud of your country and raising the flag to salute it, but to say why care, thats just plain wrong.

I thought of "population comparison" as well, but statistically I think the third world countries are increasing in population each year than the U.S.
Only way for us to justify this is to say, "Industrial Revolution" In which we dominated! And like most of the "finger pointing" threads, we are not the only country guilty of pollution. Whoever started this is just "nitpicking"! Trying to find any amount of leveredge on the U.S. Bickering about things that have been picked apart for decades!

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Comtech Comtech:

I don't buy those stats they are way off. I believe the correct ones are as follows: End of discussion I will not reply to your comments because you are wrong and I do not need to prove it.

Environment: Pollution - Carbon Dioxide per capita (Top 100 Countries)


Country Description Amount
1. United States 2,000,000
2. Luxembourg 17
3. Australia 17
4. Sweden 16
5. Belgium 12
6. Finland 12
7. Czech Republic 12
8. Netherlands 11
9. Denmark 11
10. Germany 10
11. Ireland 10
12. Japan 9
13. United Kingdom 9
14. New Zealand 8
15. Poland 8
16. Iceland 8
17. Austria 8
18. Norway 8
19. Greece 8
20. Korea, South 8
21. Italy 7
22. Hungary 6
23. Switzerland 6
24. France 6
25. Canada 0
,
Map & Graph: Environment: Pollution - Municipal Waste per capita (Top 100 Countries)

Country Description Amount
1. United States 10,200
2. New Zealand 700
3. Germany 750
4. Australia 690
5. Iceland 100
6. Switzerland 99
7. Norway 50
8. Luxembourg 50
9. France 45
10. Netherlands 43
11. Denmark 43
12. Ireland 42
13. Austria 41
14. Sweden 40
15. Hungary 30
16. Belgium 30
17. United Kingdom 30
18. Italy 26
19. Portugal 21
20. Finland 19
21. Japan 15
22. Korea, South 12
23. Spain 12
24. Greece 12
25. Canada 0

And just for kicks, Nuclear waste per capita,
Map & Graph: Environment: Pollution - Nuclear Waste (Top 100 Countries)


Country Description Amount
1. United States 2,100,000
2. Netherlands 660
3. France 660
4. Japan 640
5. United Kingdom 200
6. Germany 50
7. Korea, South 64
8. Sweden 38
9. Spain 92
10. Belgium 8
11. Finland 7
12. Switzerland 6
13. Hungary 5
14. Czech Republic 4
15. Mexico 4
16. Canada 0

You must not have gotten very much attention as a child, considering you need to make up facts and be so overly hateful towards Americans as to leave one thinking that you are just doing it for attention. Word of advice: Go see a psychologist.

On another note, to the last person who responded, the newbie, I would have to agree with you and share your optimism. Unlike most the people here who are so hellbent on the US falling and talking about how it's going to fall at every corner, I think that the US will still stay a powerful country, just that it will not be the only powerful country in the world in some years.

[Rev_Blair]

Twila's stats are per capita, so they would remain the same, Pop-O.

The US is a messy, wasteful nation. Not only that, but because of your dominant role on the world stage, the Bush regime's reluctance to work multilaterally with the world community discourages other countries from cleaning up their own act.

As for the war in Iraq...You've spent a lot of money on it, but you also have not learned anything. Your government is still propping up and supplying dictators and tyrants all over the planet, just like you did with Saddam and Osama and, and and. The interventions you choose are still based on raw materials and resources, or strategic military positions to access raw materials and resources, instead of the true spreading of democracy and human rights.

In the meantime you've undermined democracy and human rights in countries all over the planet.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Twila's stats are per capita, so they would remain the same, Pop-O.

The US is a messy, wasteful nation. Not only that, but because of your dominant role on the world stage, the Bush regime's reluctance to work multilaterally with the world community discourages other countries from cleaning up their own act.

As for the war in Iraq...You've spent a lot of money on it, but you also have not learned anything. Your government is still propping up and supplying dictators and tyrants all over the planet, just like you did with Saddam and Osama and, and and. The interventions you choose are still based on raw materials and resources, or strategic military positions to access raw materials and resources, instead of the true spreading of democracy and human rights.

In the meantime you've undermined democracy and human rights in countries all over the planet.

And Canada isn't a wasteful nation? If you take a good number of Canada's stats and give them a population of 300 million, you will probably see a close comparison to the US. So you are excusing other countries who pollute because the US does? Seems kind of like a double standard you have there. We are all people. All I have to say to you post is it's more of the negative rhetoric that you are known for. Do you ever think anything positive, or are you obsessed with the US failing and everything being the US's fault. I admit, they are not free of blame, but you make them out to be the anti-christ who is hellbent on destroying the world. I see them different, and you would probably call me ignorant, or a typical American, but I just think that they have done stupid things and are guilty of the same things that alot of other countries do, it's just they have a double standard on them. The expression that best fits my face to your post is cause I mean you are very negative and hateful of the US, even if you don't want to admit it.

[BigDubUSA]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Twila's stats are per capita, so they would remain the same, Pop-O.

The US is a messy, wasteful nation. Not only that, but because of your dominant role on the world stage, the Bush regime's reluctance to work multilaterally with the world community discourages other countries from cleaning up their own act.

As for the war in Iraq...You've spent a lot of money on it, but you also have not learned anything. Your government is still propping up and supplying dictators and tyrants all over the planet, just like you did with Saddam and Osama and, and and. The interventions you choose are still based on raw materials and resources, or strategic military positions to access raw materials and resources, instead of the true spreading of democracy and human rights.

In the meantime you've undermined democracy and human rights in countries all over the planet.

Is depression as common in Canada as in the U.S.? (Not attacking you, just observing...) Rev, you have clear signs of Anti-social behavior. Your not manic (might be bi-polar), because I have yet to see any "high mood swings" but clearly depressed. It's quite a trend here in the U.S., in which I say is, "bullshit"! It's just another excuse for not sucking up reality.
Back to your post... "Supplying dictators... Sadaam, Osama..."
Again, you do not understand diplomacy or how intelligence works. "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer." We could have either put the Shiites in charge or Sadaam. Which pile of shit? You wouldn't even know where to start.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

BigDubUSA BigDubUSA:

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Twila's stats are per capita, so they would remain the same, Pop-O.

The US is a messy, wasteful nation. Not only that, but because of your dominant role on the world stage, the Bush regime's reluctance to work multilaterally with the world community discourages other countries from cleaning up their own act.

As for the war in Iraq...You've spent a lot of money on it, but you also have not learned anything. Your government is still propping up and supplying dictators and tyrants all over the planet, just like you did with Saddam and Osama and, and and. The interventions you choose are still based on raw materials and resources, or strategic military positions to access raw materials and resources, instead of the true spreading of democracy and human rights.

In the meantime you've undermined democracy and human rights in countries all over the planet.

Is depression as common in Canada as in the U.S.? (Not attacking you, just observing...) Rev, you have clear signs of Anti-social behavior. Your not manic (might be bi-polar), because I have yet to see any "high mood swings" but clearly depressed. It's quite a trend here in the U.S., in which I say is, "bullshit"! It's just another excuse for not sucking up reality.
Back to your post... "Supplying dictators... Sadaam, Osama..."
Again, you do not understand diplomacy or how intelligence works. "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer." We could have either put the Shiites in charge or Sadaam. Which pile of shit? You wouldn't even know where to start.

Rev_blair is just one of those people who will side with anyone that is against the US and feels empathy for everyone but Americans.

[Zenfisher]

Comtech...Haven't you learned that when you make stuff up people will call you on it.

[Rev_Blair]

Ah yes...more personal attacks. The only response to the facts that some are capable of.

You guys might want to look up per capita in the dictionary. It means per person and is used in statistics to negate population differences between countries.

Nobody has forgiven Canada or any other country for their pollution, BTW, Johnny. That the US is the worst and is refusing to change is another one of those unpleasant facts though. Don't want your government criticised? Tell them to smarten up.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Ah yes...more personal attacks. The only response to the facts that some are capable of.

You guys might want to look up per capita in the dictionary. It means per person and is used in statistics to negate population differences between countries.

Nobody has forgiven Canada or any other country for their pollution, BTW, Johnny. That the US is the worst and is refusing to change is another one of those unpleasant facts though. Don't want your government criticised? Tell them to smarten up.

It's not that I don't want my government criticised, it's just that some of your criticisms are not just American Government related, yet you act like the American government is the only currupt government on this planet. So they aren't like they present themselves, get over it, they are still better than North Korea or Iran if you ask me, and probably better than a good deal of governments out there. That the US is the worst is probably because they have the largest population, and you can't use the fact that the US government won't change their government policy to excuse other governments who don't. All of you complain about how the US government does this and that, and how you don't want them, yet you blame them for the reason you don't implement your own pollution controls. If your country doesn't get rid of the pollution problems they have, you can't talk shit to other countries(especially since Canada accounts for the second highest amount of C02 emissions, yet has only 1/10 of the population of the US.) IF you noticed, most of the countries on the list of pollution amounts don't rank that far behind the US, yet most of them have half, if not 1/4 the population of the US(in canada's case 1/10).

Oh, and no personal attacks, just personal observations. I never see you say anything positive about the US and you obviously have the worst perception of them possible. I bet when Sept. 11th happened you didn't feel sad, but were going around screaming "I told you so."

It's funny that the US is such a dirty, polluted, right-wing, ignorant and ugly nation that Canadians visit it yearly for vacation. Oh the irony.

[Rev_Blair]

Okay, let me start by pointing out, once again, that the stats are per capita. That means that it doesn't matter if the US is ten times the size of Canada, we are being judged on an equal basis.

$1:

All of you complain about how the US government does this and that, and how you don't want them, yet you blame them for the reason you don't implement your own pollution controls

The most resistance to Kyoto being implemented in Canada has come from US companies in the oil and automotive industry. The politicians and right-wing think tanks who have fought against Kyoto always name trade and competition with the US as the number one reasons why we should not implement it. The US refusal to ratify Kyoto is what is keeping the targets from becoming binding, binding targets would force countries like Canada who have ratified Kyoto to implement real plans to acheive those targets.

I was highly critical of Chretien's foot-dragging on ratification and when he did ratify it, I was critical of his lack of a plan to implement it. I've complained that Martin's foot-dragging on a solid plan is because he's just waiting for the accord to fail and has no intention of meeting the targets.

What the hell do want, Johnny? What the US does affects policy all over the world because you are the sole economic and military superpower. With great power comes great responsibility though, and your government is showing the responsibility of a puppy with the runs.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Okay, let me start by pointing out, once again, that the stats are per capita. That means that it doesn't matter if the US is ten times the size of Canada, we are being judged on an equal basis.

$1:

All of you complain about how the US government does this and that, and how you don't want them, yet you blame them for the reason you don't implement your own pollution controls

The most resistance to Kyoto being implemented in Canada has come from US companies in the oil and automotive industry. The politicians and right-wing think tanks who have fought against Kyoto always name trade and competition with the US as the number one reasons why we should not implement it. The US refusal to ratify Kyoto is what is keeping the targets from becoming binding, binding targets would force countries like Canada who have ratified Kyoto to implement real plans to acheive those targets.

I was highly critical of Chretien's foot-dragging on ratification and when he did ratify it, I was critical of his lack of a plan to implement it. I've complained that Martin's foot-dragging on a solid plan is because he's just waiting for the accord to fail and has no intention of meeting the targets.

What the hell do want, Johnny? What the US does affects policy all over the world because you are the sole economic and military superpower. With great power comes great responsibility though, and your government is showing the responsibility of a puppy with the runs.

I was always under the impression that stats are only per capita when noted.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Okay, let me start by pointing out, once again, that the stats are per capita. That means that it doesn't matter if the US is ten times the size of Canada, we are being judged on an equal basis.

$1:

All of you complain about how the US government does this and that, and how you don't want them, yet you blame them for the reason you don't implement your own pollution controls

The most resistance to Kyoto being implemented in Canada has come from US companies in the oil and automotive industry. The politicians and right-wing think tanks who have fought against Kyoto always name trade and competition with the US as the number one reasons why we should not implement it. The US refusal to ratify Kyoto is what is keeping the targets from becoming binding, binding targets would force countries like Canada who have ratified Kyoto to implement real plans to acheive those targets.

I was highly critical of Chretien's foot-dragging on ratification and when he did ratify it, I was critical of his lack of a plan to implement it. I've complained that Martin's foot-dragging on a solid plan is because he's just waiting for the accord to fail and has no intention of meeting the targets.

What the hell do want, Johnny? What the US does affects policy all over the world because you are the sole economic and military superpower. With great power comes great responsibility though, and your government is showing the responsibility of a puppy with the runs.

My government is only human. You can't blame the US because your country doesn't follow all the rules of the Kyoto rules. Instead of screaming at the US because your country doesn't follow it, why not be an example. Seems like a pretty weak excuse if you ask me, blaming the US because other countries don't implement or follow the kyoto rules. Doesn't seem very responsible of Canada to sign onto something, and then not follow it because the US didn't sign.

Yes, the US does affect policies all over the world, but that doesn't mean it is the sole cause of pain and suffering around the world, and that everything is the US's fault, like you would like people to believe.

Canada still places 8th on c02 emissions, not from a per capita stat, and is 9th per capita, more than countries that are 4-5 times it's size, if not more. Canada also produces the most nuclear waste per capita, and is second with nuclear waste, not on a per capita basis. Hell, as far as pollution goes, Canada usually makes it in the top ten usually beating out other industrious countries who are 5 times or more it's size.

http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/Environment

So I think before you call the US a wasteful shithole, you should really examine all the pollution Canada has.

Now, I will be the first to agree that the US is not perfect, and that Canada is better than the US in a good many things, but the US is never far behind, and I just can't agree with your perception that the US is the devil on hearth who does no good and is basically almost a third world nation. Now, I might have blown up your perceptions, but that is basically all I can read in between the lines from you cause you are never postive and basically focused on every single negative thing about the US you can find. You probably never look up anything positive, because you want to reinforce your point of view that the US is a shithole of a place who is just plain evil. Yea, the government does fucked up things, but what government doesnt? I don't see anyone condemning the UK as much as the US for going to Iraq, yet they supplied intelligence and where right there with the US when the war went down(not to mention a bunch of other countries, but the UK is a modern industrial nation who didn't need to go).

I think you know your stuff, but you ignore or don't listen to any opposing viewpoints, which when it comes to the world, the truth is not always so simple. There is always two sides to every story, and I think you are only listening to one side, which makes you way too biased and in some ways misinformed. Now, I don't know tons of things, but I do know that there are two sides to a story.

[Rev_Blair]

Johnny said,

$1:

I was always under the impression that stats are only per capita when noted.

From the fist line of Twila's stats,

$1:

Environment: Pollution - Carbon Dioxide per capita (Top 100 Countries)

It says something similar for each category.

$1:

You can't blame the US because your country doesn't follow all the rules of the Kyoto rules.

Your nation keeps claiming to be the leader of the free world, Johnny. Your leaders and your companies (many with ties to your leaders) have actively discouraged Canada from ratifying and implementing Kyoto. Bush, Cheney and Cellucci all made reference to how our ratification may negatively affect trade.

$1:

Canada still places 8th on c02 emissions, not from a per capita stat, and is 9th per capita, more than countries that are 4-5 times it's size, if not more.

I already said,

$1:

Nobody has forgiven Canada or any other country for their pollution, BTW, Johnny.

The US does play a part in our not cleaning up our act though. The pressures from your industry and treade deals to keep our prices low leads to corners being cut. The easiest place to cut corners is on environmental regulation and its enforcement.

Is that an excuse? Well when I say that we should push to institute environmental regulation as part of trade deals regardless of what the US wants, I get called anti-American too. So which is it? Am I anti-American because I want to act without the American government, or am I anti-American because I'm critical of the influence the US has on our domestic policy?

Calling me anti-American is just an excuse...something those too lazy to come up with a real argument toss out because it's easier than looking at the facts.

[Antoine]

Many of the failures of our nations are similar. Both Canada and USA have high pollution, large energy consumption, etc. Both of our countries have excellent stats on literacy rates, infant mortality, life expectancy, etc. It is important to recognize this.

I will state that criticizing American policy or government is important, even if one's own is imperfect. Why? Well, allow me to make an analogy to labor history in America. For a long time, the automotive industry set the standard for the worker's life in America. Thanks to unions, automotive workers were able to achieve the middle class and have livable incomes. Watching and improving the automotive industry improved everybody else.

Today, the automotive industry does not set the standard, but Wal-Mart does. Wal-Mart is the largest retail employer in America. Wal-Mart employees are not uninized, make far below a livable wage, etc.

My point is that the increased awareness and criticism of Wal-Mart in the media and progressive circles is because Wal-Mart does set the standard and effects other retailers, as the recent strikes in California shows.

The analogy is that America, being the "superpower" of the world should be criticized and analyzed to a higher degree.

It also seems to me that Canada is much more mindful of environmental concerns than America. The strengthenning of the Green Party in Canada after the last elections, the emmergence of the NDP, Kyoto, etc. indicates to me as a far and away observer that Canadian politics is more concerned about the environment than American. This is a lamentable aspect of the Democratic Party and the failure of electorial reform to allow for the emmergence of third parties in America.

[Rev_Blair]

$1:

The strengthenning of the Green Party in Canada after the last elections, the emmergence of the NDP, Kyoto, etc. indicates to me as a far and away observer that Canadian politics is more concerned about the environment than American. This is a lamentable aspect of the Democratic Party and the failure of electorial reform to allow for the emmergence of third parties in America.

I had great hopes for the Democrats getting better when Gore was running, Antoine. Then I watched him, dressed like Bush's twin, mutter, "I agree with my opponent," over and over again during the debates. It was bizarre because clearly he didn't agree on many of the issues and had said so on previous occassions.

The Democrats once again seem to have chosen to be as close to the Republicans as possible on as many issues as possible...not that different than the Martin/Harper thing here, although the Liberals tend to campaign from the left and rule from the right.

What everybody in the US and Canada...Republicans, Democrats, Conservatives, Liberals...seem to be missing is that there will be very high future costs if we don't smarten up. Already the people of Tuvalu are trying to launch a lawsuit against the US government and natives in Canada's north are considering suing a range of governments and private companies because of the pollution they are affected by. Suits like that will no doubt become more and more common.

"Natural" disasters related to weather are getting more and more common and causing more and more damage because of their increased severity. That also carries huge costs, not just for the people directly affected, but for all of us because of the aid that needs to be supplied because of the disasters.

There is also the historical fact that new technologies have always caused new wealth, so instituting newer, cleaner technologies should be a goal of any thinking government.