[saturn_656]

llama66 llama66:

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I believe a one-time payment to end monarchy in Canada, however high, is better than eternal annual payments until further notice just to keep it...

So a trillion dollar pay out to the monarchy is good with you? come on give your head a shake, I get the fact to many the Monarchy is something they abhor, however it is the current form of government, I don't think we should flush potentially tens or hundreds of billions (or less...?) down the toilet because its no longer fashionable to like the monarchy, if there comes a time when the monarchy is phased out in the UK or the other Commonwealth Nations, then obviously we will need to revisit this topic. As I've said before, if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it.

The cost of the monarchy is a pittance in relative terms. In the ballpark of a toonie per Canadian per year.

The anti-monarchists need a stronger argument than that.

[Lemmy]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

The cost of the monarchy is a pittance in relative terms. In the ballpark of a toonie per Canadian per year.

The anti-monarchists need a stronger argument than that.

We have one: leadership/representation/employment/success/wealth earned on merit rather than birthright.

[saturn_656]

Lemmy Lemmy:

We have one: leadership/representation/employment/success/wealth earned on merit rather than birthright.

Sorry, one doesn't enter the royal family on basis of merit. No one enters any family on the basis of merit.

No one can change that.

You can advocate for the abolition of the Canadian Royal Family, but I sincerely believe that endeavour will fail. You won't see it in your lifetime and hopefully neither will I.

[Lemmy]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

You can advocate for the abolition of the Canadian Royal Family, but I sincerely believe that endeavour will fail. You won't see it in your lifetime and hopefully neither will I.

That's exactly what anti-abolitionists said too, but, just as with slavery, right is right and wrong is wrong. Monarchy is wrong.

[saturn_656]

Lemmy Lemmy:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

You can advocate for the abolition of the Canadian Royal Family, but I sincerely believe that endeavour will fail. You won't see it in your lifetime and hopefully neither will I.

That's exactly what anti-abolitionists said too, but, just as with slavery, right is right and wrong is wrong. Monarchy is wrong.

You're equating the monarchy to slavery? That is one hell of a stretch.

It's your opinion and of course you're entitled to it. Myself, I support the constitutional monarchy type of government that Canada uses and hope it, along with the Canadian Royal Family, endures as long as Canada exists.

[Lemmy]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

You're equating the monarchy to slavery? That is one hell of a stretch.

Is it a stretch? I don't think so. They're the same thing, or at least two sides of the same coin: determining a human's worth on the basis of one's genetics rather than one's ability.

[Jabberwalker]

I'm a tenth generation Canadian, 14th generation North American but I was proud of the tradition and had no trouble at all swearing that same oath.[/quote]


Curious why did you have to swear the oath? Was it for military service?

A citizen born in the USA does not swear an oath to the country or the constitution unless they are elected to a political office or join the military. There is a similar type oath for law enforcement. As a basic citizen the only oath you state is the pledge of allegiance to the flag.[/quote]

Yes, it was for military service. Canadians (and everyone else in the English speaking parts of the Commonwealth (don't know about Australia) swear to defend the monarch and her (or his) heirs and successors. This, presumably, was born out of the extremes of the particularly nasty English Civil of the 17th. Century.

[Jabberwalker]

$1:

You can advocate for the abolition of the Canadian Royal Family, but I sincerely believe that endeavour will fail. You won't see it in your lifetime and hopefully neither will I.

Charlies' performance may change that, but, there is a rather pleasant son and his lovely consort waiting in the wings.

[saturn_656]

Lemmy Lemmy:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

You're equating the monarchy to slavery? That is one hell of a stretch.

Is it a stretch? I don't think so. They're the same thing, or at least two sides of the same coin: determining a human's worth on the basis of one's genetics rather than one's ability.

It is done all the time, and not just by those with a royal title. Entire financial empires can and are passed down family lines. Enormous wealth and influence can be inherited by those who did little to earn it.

Want to put a stop to that too?

[DrCaleb]

Lemmy Lemmy:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

You're equating the monarchy to slavery? That is one hell of a stretch.

Is it a stretch? I don't think so. They're the same thing, or at least two sides of the same coin: determining a human's worth on the basis of one's genetics rather than one's ability.

It has little to do with Elizabeth's II genetics. In the not too distant past, if you didn't bow to the Monarch and show your respect, you died shortly thereafter.

People pay their respect to the Queen by bowing not out of her title, but because she has shown that she respects the people for which she is Head of State, and that she has earned the respect of those people in return. People see that she is Queen not by title, but by actions.

Not once has she acted like we are her slaves.

[Lemmy]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

It is done all the time, and not just by those with a royal title. Entire financial empires can and are passed down family lines. Enormous wealth and influence can be inherited by those who did little to earn it.

But those people aren't governing, are they? Do you not think that democracy is a pretty important thing?

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Want to put a stop to that too?

Actually, yes. That's how we could solve our debt problem.

[DrCaleb]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Do you not think that democracy is a pretty important thing?

Ohhhh! Slavery now the specter of dictatorship!

Tell me, what are the three branches of Government?

[saturn_656]

Lemmy Lemmy:

But those people aren't governing, are they? Do you not think that democracy is a pretty important thing?

We are not governed by the monarchy, that role falls to the elected parliament (democracy!). The monarchy has a few very rarely used "reserve powers", but in Canada these are, by convention, exercised by the PM-appointed Governor General and not the Queen herself.

I'm sure you know this.

$1:

Actually, yes. That's how we could solve our debt problem.

Pull a Chavez and nationalize it all?

[Zipperfish]

Yeah, I get older and I care less. I mean, I used to be all pro-pot legalization and now I'm like "What difference does it make?" You can order the stuff easier than you can order Chinese. Same with the monarchy. It's the old shed out back that's leaning, but you like to look at it, so you can't be bothered to go to all the effort to knock it down.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I understand some people getting their knickers in a knot - I raised a similar question when I joined the Militia (way back when) and they asked me to swear to defend the Queen. In the end, I said the oath, but my heart really wasn't in it.

Then you should not have taken the oath. I mean you no offense in that, just saying that it's not logical to reluctantly take on an obligation that you just might have to honor.

Fair enough.

I never had a second's hesitation to defend Canada - I would have done that without any such oath and still feel that way today. Had the oath been to "defend Canada", I wouldn't have said anything at all.

But I was 18 and caught off guard about the "defend the Queen of Canada" bit and voiced my concerns about it.

As far as I'm concerned, it's well within my rights as a citizen to speak up about something like that.