[WarHawk]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... ictures_dc

$1:

The pictures showed U.S. troops smiling, posing, laughing or giving the thumbs-up sign as naked, male Iraqi prisoners were stacked in a pyramid or positioned to simulate sex acts with one another.

America can do no wrong.

[Scape]

Pics

And the Brit's say ...

'Piss on it'

[Rev_Blair]

The thing is that these are not, as we are being asked to believe, isolated incidents. Especially in the case of the US, there has been a pattern of torture since the first soldiers landed in Afghanistan.

The US freely admits to using "stress and duress" methods. The UN, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and every other group concerned with the issue of torture has stated that "stress and duress" is torture.

The criminality starts at the very top.

[Scape]

Correct me if I am wrong but was not the intent of the original Geneva Conventions was to stop the original WMD, mustard gas, from being used in mass quanties on the battlefield? Fair treatment of POW's was just a part of it. It seem to me then that Geneva was effective in stopping that for the most part even against one of the most repressive regimes mankind has known, Hitler's Germany. Now If Hitler and his army can abide by Geneva (as long as you were white) then there was at least some level of civility in all this madness. I do not see any common ground between the US and the Muslim world nor do I for see one becoming feasible. US has everything to lose by doing this. Yet another Airbourne scandal but this time it's during war time. The US will probably fire the General in charge (she looks like a scape goat anyway) and lock up the soldiers in the pics but then what? The US will not recognize the authority of the IWC for the rightful fear that it's own soldiers may be held accountable for their actions and that trumped up charges could indite and paralyze the entire organization. A good thing? Well if your left to choose between corruption and anarchy you have to go with the lesser of two evils and stick with some sort of order. All the more reason Canada must have a stronger army to represent itself as an independent voice on the world stage.

[karra]

$1:

The thing is that these are not, as we are being asked to believe, isolated incidents.

Really, how do you know that? Do prove that unless it's a press release from Groom Lake directly to you.

$1:

Especially in the case of the US, there has been a pattern of torture since the first soldiers landed in Afghanistan.

Really? Won't you provide evidence of that? Imagined or manufactured will do in your case, no reason for you to change change your ways.

You should check your facts and illusions prior to partaking in your usual exercise of going postal amongst the numerous boards you pollute with your tooth fairy like prose and usual lack of facts.

I doubt anyone here supports what has happened, we saw it in Somalia, then we had a Royal Commission followed with the disbanding of the Airborne promptly followed by a quick shut down of the Commission, mmm, by whom I wonder. . . .?

[Rev_Blair]

OHCHR
Human Rights Watch
Washington Post
Human Rights Watch (again)
A full report from HRW
Amnesty International
The Guardian


Is that enough for you Karra? I have more.

The Geneva Conventions were meant to lay out some rules for what could and could not be done in war, Scape. They addressed a whole lot of things, including treatment of prisoners. The US has signed further conventions.

The American stance on the ICC is a sham, by the way. Part of the conventions attached to that is that each country has first dibs on trying their own people. Only if a country is unable or refuses to try their own people does the ICC come into play.

[Indelible]

what a sad day that was when the airborne got disbanded. i tell ya that was one kick-ass regiment. i think the airborne as a regiment should be brought back in canada, instead of having airborne platoons or companys within the PPCLI. i'm pretty sure that we have the capability now to stop all the riff raff soldiers who would want to join teh new airborne regiment. how sweet would that be?

anyway, that is my thaught sparked by the comment about the airborne being disbanded.

back on topic.....

IMO, it is very disappointing to see that the force touted as being the "bringers of everything better" would do such a despicable thing. the level of scandalous BS is going deeper and deeper. i wish bush would just say "aight, we fucked up big time, let's go home boys" but that will never happen. bush's head has swelled far too much.
has anyone posted bush's reaction to this yet?

[Rev_Blair]

Not yet, Indelible. He'll continue to try to paint it as an isolated incident and his pals will close ranks around him. The American media will refuse to speak of it as anything other than an isolated incident even though there is overwhelming evidence that such behaviour is condoned at the highest levels.

[AbeLincoln]

No Rev. It's actually all of what they've been talking about on the news down here, or atleast where I live. It's was the American show "60mins." that broke the news on tuesday. I guess everyone else think they figured out some big story.

It's horrific what had been done to those prisoners, and I hope the soldiers are prosecuted far beyond the fullest extent. But I don't personally agree with having our soldiers tried by an international council b/c I don't believe they would be fair.(I don't know why I guess it is a mistrust that we have of everybody else, and that you have of us) But like you said is it isolated, No, but is it as prolific as you make it out to be, I don't think so. Anyway, it's so beyond disgusting what they did, even if they say they were not educated on the guidelines of the Geneva Convention (doubt it) where was the basic decency that you show toward another human being.

[AdamNF]

These are war crimes, and the commander who was in charge should be watching his mail box for an invitation to the Hague.

[Rev_Blair]

I wrote and submitted this before the CBS story hit, Abe. I got the idea from watching an old Peter Mansbrdge interview about the subject. I had no idea that 60 Minutes II was about to play the story, which is why there's no reference to it in the story.

Torture, whether they perform it themselves or farm it out, is a standard method of the US government. What made it on CBS is not isolated, nor are the stories about it strictly because of the CBS story.

It really goes back to, "The whole world is watching." We are. We're getting pissed off too. 1968 was a long time ago and the US government still hasn't figured it out...you do not operate in a vacuum.

[AbeLincoln]

Well, I just saw a picture of British soldiers pissing on Iraqi prisoners on the front of the Daily Mirror!

I'm not making excuse for American soldiers, It's all disgusting.

[AdamNF]

The Canadians did it too once apon a time.

[Edit]

That's a fantastic article Rev.

[Scape]

More war crimes

[Rev_Blair]

I'm not going to make excuses for the British, Abe. I won't do that for Canada either...when our boys fucked up in Somalia I was screaming as loud as anybody.

The problem is that this is not an isolated incident for the US. It is systemic. That's what's in all those links in my reply to Karra. That's why I wrote what I did. The problem comes from the top. George Bush gives it a wink, Dick Cheney gives it a lick, Rice tosses in a promise. It travels down the line and some poor bastard ends up with wires taped to his bag. Each of us comes just a little closer to being the person that would tape those wires up.

I refuse to become the guy that tortures people.

The Canadians have done it more than once, Adam. By not standing up and demanding action we are doing again. Martin never mentoned it in his little trip to Washington. Not even a hint.