[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Was the GST cut the best choice? Probably not.

It is a "regressive" tax that hurts low income Canadians disproportionately and there should probably be less value-added taxation all around.

Then again, a cash cow is a cash cow ...

Then why is andy, the guy with the anti-poverty agenda, angry about the reduction in the tax if it helps poor people?

Because it doesn't, unless you hand your hat on Jabberwalker the economist.

We already have a GST rebate for actual poor people. In Sweden the VAT is 25% and 12 % for food. Yet Sweden has much less poverty and income inequality than Canada. Because they use social programs, funded by that VAT to redistribute wealth.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

Because it doesn't, unless you hand your hat on Jabberwalker the economist.

We already have a GST rebate for actual poor people. In Sweden the VAT is 25% and 12 % for food. Yet Sweden has much less poverty and income inequality than Canada. Because they use social programs, funded by that VAT to redistribute wealth.

You have to have an address to get the GST rebate or a bank account, something the very poor don't have.

Do I hang my hat on the unemployed theatre major when it comes to talk of poverty?

His input is no more or less credible than yours.

If the Swedish model is so fantastic, why aren't governments around the World all doing this? It's because no two countries are the same and what works in Canada might not work in other parts of the World.

[andyt]

Your concern for the homeless is truly heart warming. And I agree, the GST they have to pay at shelters and soup kitchens is an unfair burden.

But, judging by the number of homeless in Vancouver, the GST cut did very little for them. Since you are so concerned for them, would you support the federal government increasing it's funding for the housing first program, based on matching funds from each province, and increasing income taxes on higher income earners (ie not those in the lowest bracket) to pay for it? The GST cut deprives the feds of 14 billion a year. The housing first federal contribution is 600 million over 5 years. Raise the GST 1% instead of income taxes, and the feds could easily contribute 1 billion a year to this program, providing housing to everybody who wants it. Plus the former homeless could all get their GST rebates.

Now that's got to warm your caring heart.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

Your concern for the homeless is truly heart warming. And I agree, the GST they have to pay at shelters and soup kitchens is an unfair burden.

Poor people are only ones that are homeless and eat from shelters and soup kitchens?

Aren't you supposed to be the expert on this?

In Canadaq, the homeless make up 0.01% of the population and you want to spent a billion dollars to house these people?

We should not provide housing to anyone who wants it. We should provide temporary shelter to those who need it and programs to make them self sufficient.

How do you help the homeless in your community?

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

How do you help the homeless in your community?

"Spare change? Sorry, all I got is 50s."

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

Your concern for the homeless is truly heart warming. And I agree, the GST they have to pay at shelters and soup kitchens is an unfair burden.

Poor people are only ones that are homeless and eat from shelters and soup kitchens?

Aren't you supposed to be the expert on this?

In Canadaq, the homeless make up 0.01% of the population and you want to spent a billion dollars to house these people?

We should not provide housing to anyone who wants it. We should provide temporary shelter to those who need it and programs to make them self sufficient.

How do you help the homeless in your community?

It's you who brought up the homeless as not being able to receive the GST checks. I've offered a solution on how they can receive those checks.

I don't know the actual price tag, but I know we need to spend more than we do now.

So you don't agree with the federal government putting money into the housing first program (as they do)? You don't agree with this: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/communities/h ... ndex.shtml ?

The other facet is addictions treatment - the feds could put in the required money so that anybody that wants treatment can get it now, not be put on a waiting list. Probably from that same billion I talked about, but since they'd still have 6 billion left over from that 1% increase in GST they'd have the required money to spend either way.

[Regina]

andyt andyt:

The other facet is addictions treatment - the feds could put in the required money so that anybody that wants treatment can get it now, not be put on a waiting list. Probably from that same billion I talked about, but since they'd still have 6 billion left over from that 1% increase in GST they'd have the required money to spend either way.

Not sure if you know this andy but healthcare is a provincial responsibility. Maybe read up on something before demanding more.

[andyt]

Did you know that the federal government transfers substantial funds to the provinces every year for healthcare? You could look it up.

Did you know there's nothing to prevent the feds from transferring money to the provinces for a specific initiative or program if they want. You could look it up.

[Regina]

andyt andyt:

Did you know that the federal government transfers substantial funds to the provinces every year for healthcare? You could look it up.

Did you know there's nothing to prevent the feds from transferring money to the provinces for a specific initiative or program if they want. You could look it up.

Did you know that they have no say in how that money is spent after allocation? If it was that important to the province it would be done.
Nothing stopping them from giving more? Simple solution for a simple person.

[andyt]

Regina Regina:

andyt andyt:

Did you know that the federal government transfers substantial funds to the provinces every year for healthcare? You could look it up.

Did you know there's nothing to prevent the feds from transferring money to the provinces for a specific initiative or program if they want. You could look it up.

Did you know that they have no say in how that money is spent after allocation? If it was that important to the province it would be done.
Nothing stopping them from giving more? Simple solution for a simple person.

The feds have often given money to he provinces for specific programs, they could do the same here.

It's more complicated than giving more money? Really? What's the complication?

[Regina]

andyt andyt:

The feds have often given money to he provinces for specific programs, they could do the same here.

It's more complicated than giving more money? Really? What's the complication?

Often? When?
First complication is ALL the other provinces as usual.
You're barking up the wrong tree just to make yourself sound like you know what you're talking about. It's a provincial matter and if it was anything more than that the province would ask for more to deal with it. They want more just like all the other provinces. Blame your Premier.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

It's you who brought up the homeless as not being able to receive the GST checks. I've offered a solution on how they can receive those checks.

No, you didn't.

andyt andyt:

So you don't agree with the federal government putting money into the housing first program (as they do)? You don't agree with this: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/communities/h ... ndex.shtml ?

On the surface, looks to be a decent program as it takes people who've spent about half a year in a shelter before they will offer them help.

andyt andyt:

The other facet is addictions treatment - the feds could put in the required money so that anybody that wants treatment can get it now, not be put on a waiting list. Probably from that same billion I talked about, but since they'd still have 6 billion left over from that 1% increase in GST they'd have the required money to spend either way.

There are waiting lists for everything in our system and the money would be far better spent serving a larger base of the population. With 30,000 homeless in Canada on a daily basis, you want to give each and everyone of them $33,000 per year in rent subsidies and health/living costs? You're a nice guy.

I asked you above but you failed to answer. What do you do for the homeless people in your community?

[andyt]

Having an address is not a solution to the homeless receiving their GST rebates? (the least of their worries) why?

I want to give them what it takes, because the chez soir research has shown doing so actually saves money in medical and policing costs. It just takes up front money to make the program happen, the savings are downstream.

AS for what do I do for the homeless, I push for them to be looked after properly, not apply band aids that just perpetuate the situation. I don't give money to panhandlers either. All that does is entrench the problem. You want to pat yourself on the back for whatever little program you're involved in, while being too selfish to raise govt revenues so it can be done properly, feel free. That's what all these private initiatives amount to - ego stroking while perpetuating the misery. Bushinesses/individuals screaming about having to pay taxes, then giving a little bit of money they saved to a cause so they can get their picture in the paper about what do gooders they are. And deducting it on their taxes. Pure bullshit.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

I want to give them what it takes, because the chez soir research has shown doing so actually saves money in medical and policing costs. It just takes up front money to make the program happen, the savings are downstream.

AS for what do I do for the homeless, I push for them to be looked after properly, not apply band aids that just perpetuate the situation.

So nothing except for asking OTHERS to give money.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

Having an address is not a solution to the homeless receiving their GST rebates? (the least of their worries) why?

Having an address doesn't solve all the other issues including mental illness and addiction.

andyt andyt:

I want to give them what it takes, because the chez soir research has shown doing so actually saves money in medical and policing costs. It just takes up front money to make the program happen, the savings are downstream.

How much will it really save? Are we going to dump billions into a program that effects such a small group of Canadians?

andyt andyt:

AS for what do I do for the homeless, I push for them to be looked after properly, not apply band aids that just perpetuate the situation. I don't give money to panhandlers either. All that does is entrench the problem. You want to pat yourself on the back for whatever little program you're involved in, while being too selfish to raise govt revenues so it can be done properly, feel free. That's what all these private initiatives amount to - ego stroking while perpetuating the misery. Bushinesses/individuals screaming about having to pay taxes, then giving a little bit of money they saved to a cause so they can get their picture in the paper about what do gooders they are. And deducting it on their taxes. Pure bullshit.

Amazing.

All this talk and that's all you do? You push for them to be looked after properly?

Another blow to your credibility.

I don't give money to the homeless. I give my time. Not some private initiative, no tax break or payment required.

Every year, I also take my hockey team to a shelter in down town Toronto to provide meals, sort food and help with the facilities, especially around Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Maybe you should try making a difference. I guarantee, you'd do much more good for the people you advocate for if you got off your ass and did something.