[PJB]

If, as several posters on here claim, native Canadians do not consider themselves as Canadians then why are they granted all the rights and freedoms that Canadians have without having many of the responsibilities that come with Canadian citizenship.

Is Canada going to become the North American version of Europe with a whole bunch of independant 'nations'?

[USCAdad]

PJB PJB:

If, as several posters on here claim, native Canadians do not consider themselves as Canadians then why are they granted all the rights and freedoms that Canadians have without having many of the responsibilities that come with Canadian citizenship.

Is Canada going to become the North American version of Europe with a whole bunch of independant 'nations'?

If they haven't been conquered and have not signed a treaty, then yes. They have sovereignty. Best be solving this sooner than later.

[Tman1]

I'm no expert but....Treaty rights, is the main goal of aboriginals in Canada despite what a misguided few might say about sovereignty. As of now, there are elections held or something for leadership of the First Nations and they want to protect their Treaty rights, agreements made either directly or indirectly by the newly formed Dominion of Canada or through the crown of Great Britain.

Perhaps the reason they get compensation or money is because the government is being hounded by human rights commissions and of course Canada, being what it is, wants a picture perfect record of being a "nice" nation.

I don't think the First Nations are completely sovereign (at least not until they clean up their own filth and corruption) and they like other minority groups rely on the government. Like I said previously, they warrent special attention because of Canada's multicultural policy and catering to foreign organizations on human rights. In order to keep our exterior as being a "nice" nation, we have to give them money and compensation even if they think they are sovereign.

That said, ever compare the policies of the United States and Canada concerning their respective aboriginal peoples? I wonder which one gets more grief.

[USCAdad]

Tman1 Tman1:

I'm no expert but....Treaty rights, is the main goal of aboriginals in Canada despite what a misguided few might say about sovereignty. As of now, there are elections held or something for leadership of the First Nations and they want to protect their Treaty rights, agreements made either directly or indirectly by the newly formed Dominion of Canada or through the crown of Great Britain.

Perhaps the reason they get compensation or money is because the government is being hounded by human rights commissions and of course Canada, being what it is, wants a picture perfect record of being a "nice" nation.

I don't think the First Nations are completely sovereign (at least not until they clean up their own filth and corruption) and they like other minority groups rely on the government. Like I said previously, they warrent special attention because of Canada's multicultural policy and catering to foreign organizations on human rights. In order to keep our exterior as being a "nice" nation, we have to give them money and compensation even if they think they are sovereign.

That said, ever compare the policies of the United States and Canada concerning their respective aboriginal peoples? I wonder which one gets more grief.

The US chose to conquer Native Bands. Indian Wars ring a bell? There are places in BC that have never seen a white man.

[Tman1]

PJB PJB:

Is Canada going to become the North American version of Europe with a whole bunch of independant 'nations'?

The way Canada was created and being based on a weak link of Confederation and mutual needs and wants of each province, that prospect isn't too hard to come by.

As of now we have provinces who bicker over equalization payments and Alberta and perhaps Newfoundland soon saying "get your hands off our resources", provinces who don't want a strong central government but rather more and more autonomy and freedom, more minorities overcoming the general population (Chinese in B.C ex)....see where I'm getting at?

[PJB]

The US did, as it seems to do now, to the natives. Isolate or destroy. Britain , notice I did not say Canada, preferred the more generous and gentle approach of negotiations.

The natives in the states have tonnes of money from casinos and the natives in Canada have what?

[Tman1]

USCAdad USCAdad:

The US chose to conquer Native Bands. Indian Wars ring a bell? There are places in BC that have never seen a white man.

Thanks for the history lesson and yes it does ring a bell but I was refering to current policy. You are right though as the historical impact of the two nations policies did differ. Canada had no military to do that and instead had to negotiate with the tribes of the prairies.

[Tman1]

PJB PJB:

The US did, as it seems to do now, to the natives. Isolate or destroy. Britain , notice I did not say Canada, preferred the more generous and gentle approach of negotiations.

The natives in the states have tonnes of money from casinos and the natives in Canada have what?

THere are casino's that are illegally established and run by Natives in Quebec and Ontario but the government chooses not to do anything about it because of foreign criticism.

[PJB]

Tman...totally agree with you..native born Canadians...Notice I did not say native Canadians...are loosing out to the massive number of immigrants. We do not have the melting pot that is the United States but we have the simmering, waiting to explode, pot that is multiculturilism

[Clogeroo]

First Nations still are governed under the laws of Canada. It is kind of a trade off for most of them they have less influence in the country so get more freedom to do their own thing in their communities. The reserves were just us negotiating to use their land in return we paid them some money and let them have their own reserves. It was pretty much either accept it or we will take it situation so many chose to accept.

$1:

There are places in BC that have never seen a white man.

Yes right lol everyone knows who the white man is.

[PJB]

CLogeroo...Although your post is rather hard to comprehend, your ideas are right, to a point. Natives are governed under federal laws. They are not bound by provincial laws, hence the total disregard for many provincial anti-smoking laws.

No other group of Canadians can pick and choose which laws they obey.

[Tman1]

The Oka Incident is a good example of Natives claiming sovereignty over themselves and this includes a golf course. Most times it's of mundane and something so simplistic as an ancestral "burial" ground to claim land. Did people actually check to see if there was actually anybody in the ground?

[PJB]

Tman..You make a good point, but the native claimants would never allow any kind of bodycount. Hell they are claiming lands cuz somebody's great-great-great grandfather pissed on a tree so they own all the lands withing a 600 mile stretch

[Tman1]

I suppose but in this day and age, proof is the binding contract that separates truth from fiction or in this case, getting what you want. If they can prove they have a burial ground there, I see no reason not to let them have the land.

[BartSimpson]

Tman1 Tman1:

That said, ever compare the policies of the United States and Canada concerning their respective aboriginal peoples? I wonder which one gets more grief.

Canada does.

Indian Tribes (what we call Natives and First Nations down here) are doing pretty good anymore. In the late eighties the Navajo started a ski resort in Arizona over the protest of the Bureau of Indian Affairs and when the thing took off the BIA tried to take it away from the tribe to have a non-Indian firm "manage" it for them. They sued in the courts and won their rigts to run their own businesses. Now they have casinos all over the country and they're doing pretty darn good for themselves.

Consequently, we have almost no problems with them as you do in Caledonia.

Also, the various treaties we have with the Indians are recognized by our courts and while we do not mess with "land claims" in the same sense that Canada does they do receive ample compensation for their lands. The Penobscot have a reservation on Indian Island at Old Town, Maine and the courts recognized that they had a legitimate claim to what amounted to about 45% of the State of Maine. The approximately 2,000 members of the tribe accepted a compensation package worth about US$650,000,000.00 instead of pressing a land claim.

There are some abuses such as the ones concerning antiquities. Tribes all too often claim rights to antiquities that predate their presence in certain areas and they quite often claim the antiquities of tribes wholly unrelated to them.

Consequently, archaeologists are loathe to declare many finds until they can firmly establish which tribe (if any) still extant has a legal claim to them.

The Anasazi and Fremont peoples are extinct and the courts do not recognize most latter day tribal claims to their respective antiquities.