[andyt]

You don't have to pay me a dime. I'm for all Canadians getting equal educational opportunities, and making those the best we can provide. But just as small villages may not have a highschool, so would small reserves have to go off reserve for it. And as I say, allow the provinces to adminster it and set the standards. Same educational system for all, no matter the color of their skin.

[GeeGeeMcFee]

andyt andyt:

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

Are you referring to the fact that that you and your kin (and me!!) get to live in the best country in the world with a living standard that is better than 95% of the rest of the world?

Same country the natives live in. Nothing stops the natives from participating in the country. Leave the reserve and they'll get the same education and same chances as everybody else. There isn't one right that we have that the natives don't. But you insist on making these racial divisions.

Like I said, smarter men than you have been trying this for over 135 years. They are not leaving. I can hire a native fellow from the reserve if he has the capacity to do what I need him to do. Unfortunately the education system gets them to my door, but I cannot hire someone who cannot read a tape measure or do simple math.

Once educated I think there are plenty of jobs and opportunities that will draw them off the reserves and even get them to the point where they realize that these places are rotting pits for human neglect and discomfort. And then we can start talking about a new system that suits us and them better. Right now I do not think that self actualization for Natives as a collective in 2013 is possible because they are under-educated and not invested in our world. They are heavily invested in their world. Educate.

[ShepherdsDog]

.plenty of small villages around here where kids are bused to other towns due to amalgamation and closed highschools

[ShepherdsDog]

.plenty of small villages around here where kids are bused to other towns due to amalgamation and closed highschools

[PublicAnimalNo9]

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

1) A status/treaty card does nothing except identify you as an individual with rights based on the treaties that the Crown and the original inhabitants of the land agreed to. Along with the $5 a year, you also get certain tax exemptions when purchasing goods or services on reserve or working on reserve.

In Ontario, those tax exemptions also apply to many purchases off reserve.

[GeeGeeMcFee]

andyt andyt:

You don't have to pay me a dime. I'm for all Canadians getting equal educational opportunities, and making those the best we can provide. But just as small villages may not have a highschool, so would small reserves have to go off reserve for it. And as I say, allow the provinces to administer it and set the standards. Same educational system for all, no matter the color of their skin.

Agreed, as many kids are already bused to small towns.

[Thanos]

Can't force them to go to school if they don't want to. The opportunities are there, and have been for a long time now, for anyone who wants to participate but no one in whitey-land should feel the slightest bit sorry for the ones who want to stay on the rez and do noting else with themselves except guilt-money from the government.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Now if you and others could get over your fear and loathing, Natives would have somewhere to start with their problems.

Natives don't need to worry about my feelings or the feelings of others to start addressing their problems.

Problems need to be addressed on a reserve/band level and for the finger pointing to stop.

That's right, I forgot, only the abuse you suffered counts. OK, got it.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You act like increasing funding will suddenly make the education system on reserves World class without the troubles of finding teachers.



History has shown that increasing funding to our First Nations had done nothing to solve the problems on reserves.

I can vouch for two programmes, NORTEP and SUNTEP in Saskatchewan, which have produced some very good teachers. It's costly to set up a programme, but cheaper than building new jails.

[ShepherdsDog]

We had BUNTEP in Manitoba....I've commented on it before and not in a positive way. A dumbed down program that produced sub standard educators.

[fifeboy]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

We had BUNTEP in Manitoba....I've commented on it before and not in a positive way. A dumbed down program that produced sub standard educators.

Good grief Dog, with a name like BUMTAP what do you expect...oh wait...

Actually, my experience has been mostly with NORTEP which was quite good. I know people who came out of SUNTEP who are excellent teachers, but I worked with NORTEP people and liked what I saw.

[OnTheIce]

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

How about you move to Regina? What are the logistics? How much will it cost, and would you want to?

Now if you are a single unemployed parent how are they going to make that move?

Are you going to bus children 150 kms each day ?

Who's asking people to move? Not all reserves are 150km's from the nearest public school. Often, they are a very close drive here in Ontario.

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

You have two choices:

1) Bite the bullet now and pay for equal education for Aboriginal kids

2) or bite the bullet later for the costs of welfare, poverty and jail cells.

Those are the choices.

Those are YOUR choices. Getting children off reserve to attend school is the best option in my opinion.

You talk about equality. Have the Natives cough up their fair share to pay for education and then we can talk equality.

Not paying anything for education and demanding the same isn't 'equality' because now, the millions of Canadians paying thousands of dollars in taxes are getting the same education as those who pay none.

Equality isn't a 1-way street.

GeeGeeMcFee GeeGeeMcFee:

Waiting for them to leave their reserves voluntarily has not worked under any condition for over 135 years. All of a sudden your genius ideas and hard nosed thinking is going to change that? I hardly think so.

Then we end the reserve program and remove special status from First Nations people. Equality, right?

[Thanos]

Having them take courses in things that have employable outcomes, instead of concentrating on the morass of "Native Studies", wouldn't hurt either.

[GeeGeeMcFee]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Then we end the reserve program and remove special status from First Nations people. Equality, right?

If you want to do that then you have to treat them as equals and account for the land that encompasses Canada. A simpleton might think that is as simple as passing legislation that denies Aboriginal people the rights that are afforded to them because of their occupation of this land prior to anyone else. You might think that you can just change the deal because it suits you and in your narrow minded expertise, them.

But that is not legally possible. We've been doing the same thing over and over and over again, trying to absorb the Natives into the body politic of this country ever since the treaties and the creation of reserves. Now we are faced with a growing population and and shortfall in the education of Natives.

Equality under the law means that the Natives rights as the original inhabitants are protected just as well as your property rights are. If we listen to more of your rhetoric we are going to keep paying through the nose for Natives claims against Canada.

WE DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL OPTION OF IGNORING NATIVES RIGHTS TO THIS LAND! Equality means recognizing that we have obligations, and we have spent billions ignoring those obligations at the expense of the Natives and at the expense of the taxpayer. I am no longer willing to sit "idle" and let ignorant people develop policy that further contributes to the erosion of the integrity of the Canadian Crown nor am I happy that thieves have stole and defrauded from the said Natives leaving the taxpayers on the hook for those frauds.

It is despicable that you and I have to account for this theft. Why are we on the hook instead of tracking down the people responsible for those thefts and making claims against them or their kin in court? Instead the rednecks blame the Natives for being endless money pits and insist they are not justified in making claim for this theft.

You want to end reserves and special status - educate. Education is transferable across Canada - education will open some eyes and some will leave, others will stay and try to make the community a better place, others will take over he band council and we can have educated people running the bands, the possibilities become endless. Or not, and you keep footing the bill.

There are only two choices.

[GeeGeeMcFee]

Thanos Thanos:

Having them take courses in things that have employable outcomes, instead of concentrating on the morass of "Native Studies", wouldn't hurt either.

Plotting a course also depends on knowing where you are starting from. I think more non-Natives need to take some "Native Studies" courses so that they recognize that Natives actually have legal rights that the Crown is obligated to uphold.