[Brenda]

NVM
(couldn't delete the post WTH did the delete button go? )

[KorbenDeck]

Proculation Proculation:

Yet, it brought prices down, replaced low wage manufacturing jobs to high wage jobs. And we are lacking technical/professionals people with quite good wages for people who do not fit into the knowledge economy.

It didn't replace all manufacturing jobs (which by the way were fairly good paying till the outsourcing rush) with higher paying jobs what it did was create a few higher paying jobs and replaced the rest with low paying jobs. Also Canada makes more money if more people are making average wage vs a few people make high wages

[Brenda]

Proculation Proculation:

Bruce_the_vii Bruce_the_vii:

Lots of blaming the poor for being poor here. It's hard enough being poor without being blamed for the systems shortfalls.

Also a lot of the low wage earners are Moms that put their life into raising the kids, not getting an Engineering Degree. Retail in Canada is all low wage women. Women will still opt to be Mothers rather than Professionals. I don't have kids myself but I can make out it's pretty hard work having a family, for those of you with a work ethic.

Some people count and some people don't, that's basic philosophy.

I've no problem with the state helping single mothers with tax credit for daycare and help to get back to school to have a better job. That's a thing the state is entitled to IMO. However, being a mother is not a "real job". It's a totally normal situation in our life. If they decide to quit school, make 3 children without a steady partner and then complain about it... I would have to say that it was her choice.

It's a choice 2 people make, usually. Sometimes, that choice doesn't end the way you want it, and a lot of times, women end up alone with the kids. When you have stayed home to raise your kids, or had a part time job at a store because you didnt want your kids to be raised by an $8/hr nanny (live in, substract $325 for room and board), you don't have the experience, regardless of your education, which will be outdated anyway. When you own a home, both being on the deed, I mean, you have a problem. No right to rental assistance or welfare, as long as that house is not sold.
How can you make a living wage?

[Proculation]

KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:

Proculation Proculation:

Yet, it brought prices down, replaced low wage manufacturing jobs to high wage jobs. And we are lacking technical/professionals people with quite good wages for people who do not fit into the knowledge economy.

It didn't replace all manufacturing jobs (which by the way were fairly good paying till the outsourcing rush) with higher paying jobs what it did was create a few higher paying jobs and replaced the rest with low paying jobs. Also Canada makes more money if more people are making average wage vs a few people make high wages

That's not only untrue both it is a very bad understanding of economics.

[Proculation]

Brenda Brenda:

Proculation Proculation:

Bruce_the_vii Bruce_the_vii:

Lots of blaming the poor for being poor here. It's hard enough being poor without being blamed for the systems shortfalls.

Also a lot of the low wage earners are Moms that put their life into raising the kids, not getting an Engineering Degree. Retail in Canada is all low wage women. Women will still opt to be Mothers rather than Professionals. I don't have kids myself but I can make out it's pretty hard work having a family, for those of you with a work ethic.

Some people count and some people don't, that's basic philosophy.

I've no problem with the state helping single mothers with tax credit for daycare and help to get back to school to have a better job. That's a thing the state is entitled to IMO. However, being a mother is not a "real job". It's a totally normal situation in our life. If they decide to quit school, make 3 children without a steady partner and then complain about it... I would have to say that it was her choice.

It's a choice 2 people make, usually. Sometimes, that choice doesn't end the way you want it, and a lot of times, women end up alone with the kids. When you have stayed home to raise your kids, or had a part time job at a store because you didnt want your kids to be raised by an $8/hr nanny (live in, substract $325 for room and board), you don't have the experience, regardless of your education, which will be outdated anyway. When you own a home, both being on the deed, I mean, you have a problem. No right to rental assistance or welfare, as long as that house is not sold.
How can you make a living wage?

That's why I said that the state has a role in helping those people.

[Brenda]

They don't.

[KorbenDeck]

Proculation Proculation:

KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:

Proculation Proculation:

Yet, it brought prices down, replaced low wage manufacturing jobs to high wage jobs. And we are lacking technical/professionals people with quite good wages for people who do not fit into the knowledge economy.

It didn't replace all manufacturing jobs (which by the way were fairly good paying till the outsourcing rush) with higher paying jobs what it did was create a few higher paying jobs and replaced the rest with low paying jobs. Also Canada makes more money if more people are making average wage vs a few people make high wages

That's not only untrue both it is a very bad understanding of economics.

Care to expand on that? Since the strongest economies in the world have always been the manufacturing giants. And the wage gap started to get bad once we did the shift from manufacturing to outsourcing.

[ASLplease]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

QBC QBC:

One of the kids that played on my lacrosse team last year is a perfect example. He gets out of high school, gets an apprenticeship as a carpenter. He busts his ass working every hour he can get his hands on no matter how far away the job is or how remote the oil patch camp he has to go to. He busts his hump is school to get the theoretical part of the apprenticeship done and done well all the while paying rent and all his own bills. He finishes, gets his journeyman wage, bought a brand new Chevy 3/4 ton and paid it off in two years. He just bought himself a condo with half, that's right, HALF the money down. He's 22 years old. That's the difference between those who want a good life and those who want a good life and are prepared to work to get it.

He didn't work hard.

He was lucky.

He had advantages other people don't have.

He cheated.

He's white.

He's won life's lottery.

It's unfair.

(Just thought I'd get the BS retorts out of the way all at once. )

I was 22 in the early 90s. I remember alot of people that had to bust their ass just to earn a minimum wage. Luck has alot to do with it.

[Brenda]

ASLplease ASLplease:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

QBC QBC:

One of the kids that played on my lacrosse team last year is a perfect example. He gets out of high school, gets an apprenticeship as a carpenter. He busts his ass working every hour he can get his hands on no matter how far away the job is or how remote the oil patch camp he has to go to. He busts his hump is school to get the theoretical part of the apprenticeship done and done well all the while paying rent and all his own bills. He finishes, gets his journeyman wage, bought a brand new Chevy 3/4 ton and paid it off in two years. He just bought himself a condo with half, that's right, HALF the money down. He's 22 years old. That's the difference between those who want a good life and those who want a good life and are prepared to work to get it.

He didn't work hard.

He was lucky.

He had advantages other people don't have.

He cheated.

He's white.

He's won life's lottery.

It's unfair.

(Just thought I'd get the BS retorts out of the way all at once. )

I was 22 in the early 90s. I remember alot of people that had to bust their ass just to earn a minimum wage. Luck has alot to do with it.

No no, it is only TODAY'S youth... I was in my early 20's in the early 90's too. I remember it was VERY hard to get a job. Regardless of education.

[Proculation]

Brenda Brenda:

They don't.

I agree they are not doing enough and/or that the ressources a not used properly.

[Proculation]

KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:

Proculation Proculation:

KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:

It didn't replace all manufacturing jobs (which by the way were fairly good paying till the outsourcing rush) with higher paying jobs what it did was create a few higher paying jobs and replaced the rest with low paying jobs. Also Canada makes more money if more people are making average wage vs a few people make high wages

That's not only untrue both it is a very bad understanding of economics.

Care to expand on that? Since the strongest economies in the world have always been the manufacturing giants. And the wage gap started to get bad once we did the shift from manufacturing to outsourcing.

The strongest economies in the world have always been the manufacturing giants ? That's new to me.
Hong Kong, Japan, Luxembourg, Switzerland to name a few. They are not based on manufacturing.

Manufacturing is a way for a country to develop and improve an economy. When you are passed a certain stage of development, manufacturing is left to other countries to get into a high level economy.

Don't tell me you would like to bring back the manufacture of t-shirts or shoes back in Canada.

[ASLplease]

Proc, I dont know what the correct economics101 answer is to that, but I think anytime we can produce a product here in Canada, we create jobs, GDP, and inovation.

I'm starting a business in the service industry, but if I can convert it to a manufacturing company, I would like that very much.

[llama66]

THATS IT! I KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THE ARGUMENT.
COMMUNISM
Kidding, Kidding. Please don't flame me all at once.

[KorbenDeck]

Proculation Proculation:

Hong Kong, Japan, Luxembourg, Switzerland to name a few. They are not based on manufacturing.

Manufacturing is a way for a country to develop and improve an economy. When you are passed a certain stage of development, manufacturing is left to other countries to get into a high level economy.

Don't tell me you would like to bring back the manufacture of t-shirts or shoes back in Canada.

Japan has a very large manufacturing base which is very important to its economy, very very important. I do not know Hong Kongs economy so cannot comment. Luxembourg and Switzerland make their money from being the bankers for the rest of the world and have a small enough population that this is possible. You do not need huge amounts of bankers to provide service to huge amounts of people, so Canada basing its economy off that model could not work. Also Luxembourg and Switzerland have no "flex" power they cannot use their economies to project any kind of influence, and their dependence on other nations choosing them to do their banking makes them vulnerable to being strong armed.

Germany is also a very large and strong economy and again they have a large manufacturing base, they are also the second largest exporter in the world after China.

I understand there is an idea that says that all of a nations currencies must end up eventually making its way back to its home nation and that the more a currency is being circulated the better for said nation. However when you get into a trade deficit like the USA is you are forced to borrow and borrow and borrow, its the same as increasing you credit limit on your credit card, for the immediate moment it has benefited you (you got to buy that new tv, or pay a bill) but long term you are making thing worst for yourself. That is what Canada is doing now, we are borrowing money so that we can send MORE money outside the country without ensuring that the money will return to Canada at a later time.

Yes I would like to see Canada making t-shirts and shoes again, not being the primary industry but enough so that at lest we are offsetting the trade deficit that Canada is now starting to develop (manufacturing has also been declining as % of GDP go figure). Not everyone can be a doctor or a banker our population is to large to be the bankers of the world. Even the service industry which some thought would protect us from outsourcing is now being outsourced (you can hire a lawyer in India to take care of you legal work for $20 an hour vs a lawyer here for $300 an hour) Canada needs manufacturing because hello we have a over half a trillion dollars of debt we need to pay off and trade deficits make a bad problem a even worse problem and despite what some economist say we cannot inflate our debt away.

Manufacturing is big money and at lest in western nations the big money is more evenly distributed between corporate and employees (we make more off personal income taxes vs corporate taxes). Canada can be a large manufacturing without having to import materials which means no one else can suddenly strong arm us by stopping the export of something to us, like what China did to Japan a while ago over a damn fishing boat caption. Retail jobs (which we used to replace manufacturing jobs) keeps the money in the corporate bank accounts and a few head management. We are always going to have people at the "bottom" of the economy's work force, but its better that our bottom being manufacturing jobs that pay a decent wage and generate Canada trade vs retail jobs that pay minimum wage and gain Canada no more trade.

[QBC]

Brenda Brenda:

ASLplease ASLplease:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

He didn't work hard.

He was lucky.

He had advantages other people don't have.

He cheated.

He's white.

He's won life's lottery.

It's unfair.

(Just thought I'd get the BS retorts out of the way all at once. )

I was 22 in the early 90s. I remember alot of people that had to bust their ass just to earn a minimum wage. Luck has alot to do with it.

No no, it is only TODAY'S youth... I was in my early 20's in the early 90's too. I remember it was VERY hard to get a job. Regardless of education.

I finished high school in the mid 80's, entered the work force while going to college. (had to pay for it somehow) I have been unemployed for a total of three months in all the years since that time. Through recessions, industry slow downs and the like. It simply boiled down to the fact that I refuse to be out of work, period. I've had to take jobs that I didn't like, for people I had no respect for and who paid me shit wages. I did it because it just had to be done. I stayed at the shit job until a better one came along and off I went, always trying to improve my condition, but never, ever did I play the blame game. This is my life and it will only be what I make of it or not make of it. I will not rely on government handouts, pray for good luck to make my life better, or hope that someone bails me out of a tough time. I will get there cause of what I do. For me, it's a matter of pride and self respect.