[Demian_164]

andyt andyt:

Thanos Thanos:

It's more that this family of terrorists is allowed to claim Canadian citizenship that seems to bother most of us. As far as I'm concerned, the value of Canadian citizenship is greatly cheapened by having to share it with the Khadrs.

These people are evil terrorist scum. They simply should not be allowed to call themselves Canadians.

That's how I see it - he's no more a murderer than any soldier. He was a soldier for the team he chose to fight for. For that, he should have been a pow and been released at some point. Certainly not tortured.

But, I'm not crazy at all about him being in Canada. If we would find a way to revoke his citizenship, or even put him on trial for being a traitor, I would be all for it. Surely we would have put a German-Canadian on trial for treason if you chose to fight for Germany in WWII.

But we've gotta play by our laws, whatever they are. If we start making exceptions for people who we don't like, ie act outside the law, that's not a state we want to live in. What if one day the state decides not to like you? So unless we can charge him (unlikely) or revoke his citizenship (impossible) we're going to have him back. And once he's freed, if the police are too intrusive in watching him, he'll have a legal case for persecution. I hope CSIS are up to the job tho.

i agree wholeheartedly

[martin14]

Demian_164 Demian_164:

andyt hit the nail on the head. if his guilt is so obvious...why not a normal trial?

He had a normal trial, in a court set up for enemy terrorists, not Family Court or Civil Court or Criminal Court.



You would also like to dispute the legitimacy of the Nuremburg trials ?

I dont recall too many people being upset they didnt use German Juvenile Court
rules and procedures for that one.

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Is Khadr guilty of murder just because he is the enemy, or do you think all combatants, including our own soldiers, are murderers? Who cares that he was not officially a member of Taliban army, he belonged to a group of fighters that had the blessing of Afghanistan's Tabliban gov't and were expected to defend that government.

The Geneva Conventions do, so he was never a 'soldier', just terrorist scum.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

$1:

I see his actions in defending a country he was taught to care for as no different than Canadians fighting for Britain or France.

That's an epic fail. I suggest you read into WWI and WWII again.

Well you're going to have to give me more to go on than that. Canadians fought for another country because they saw us as allies of that country and wanted to defeat what they saw as evil. I'm sure Khadr had much the same motivation.

We fought in WW1 and 2 because of 2 words, British colony. Now, since Khadr is a Canadian, when he decided to partake in the hostilities, it would be like a German-Canadian heading for Germany during either World War to fight for them. Treason is what he commited pure and simple, never mind the fact he killed someone in the process.

[Bacardi4206]

Demian_164 Demian_164:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

$1:

I see his actions in defending a country he was taught to care for as no different than Canadians fighting for Britain or France.

That's an epic fail. I suggest you read into WWI and WWII again.

The big difference being the people that fought in those war were soldier Khadr is a murder NOT a soldier.

do you have to be an enlisted man in order to be a "soldier"? what if another country occupied canada, and you were fighting a guerilla war to repel them... since you are wearing a t-shirt inside of khakis that makes you a murderer instead of a soldier?

Pretty much you do, A soldier is somebody who fights for his country. His nation and the people in it. The taliban are not a national army. They can be considered a militia but since there actions are more in direct with terrorism, you could hardly call them that. Instead they are more directly should be called terrorists. Militia are a group of citizens who try and defend there country, used as emergency law enforcement, etc. That's what a militia is.

You could maybe say that the Taliban are trying to defend there country but there actions say other-wise. They directly kill there own people, when NATO made a huge effort to limit civilian casualties, they made a huge effort to maxamize them. They planet IED's which more over kill and harm civilians than they do soldiers and they don't care. They always plant them in civilian populated areas. Dress like civilians, fight amung civilians. Heck, majority of them are from pakistan anyways. That doesn't sound to me like a militia, so hence they are a terrorist organization. Khadr involving with them therefor makes him a terrorist.

As stated above, Khadr isn't even from Afghanistan. Canadian born and family from Egypt. This is a religious thing. Also if Britain ever got invaded, sure I'd like to help them out. By that standard, I'd join the military and hope Canada decided to help Britain. I wouldn't fly over there and let's say, join the IRA and plant IED's all over Britain that mostly kill Britains rather than there invaders. That shit is just stupid, atleast if your objective was the defense of Britain and it's citizens. As I hardly see doing a better job at killing Britains than there enemy is classified as defending Britain, just like what the Taliban is doing in Afghanistan.

[Guy_Fawkes]

The only way I could have possibly thought he would be allowed to be apart of western society is if after the Americans raided the camp he proclaimed "Help me please, I dont want to be here, they made me do horrible things. I want to go back home, I will help you anyway I can!" He didnt however, he sulked around and it was only until he realized that if he didnt look repentant at the trial he could never get out of prison.

[desertdude]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Pretty much you do, A soldier is somebody who fights for his country. His nation and the people in it. The taliban are not a national army. They can be considered a militia but since there actions are more in direct with terrorism, you could hardly call them that. Instead they are more directly should be called terrorists. Militia are a group of citizens who try and defend there country, used as emergency law enforcement, etc. That's what a militia is.

You could maybe say that the Taliban are trying to defend there country but there actions say other-wise. They directly kill there own people, when NATO made a huge effort to limit civilian casualties, they made a huge effort to maxamize them. They planet IED's which more over kill and harm civilians than they do soldiers and they don't care. They always plant them in civilian populated areas. Dress like civilians, fight amung civilians. Heck, majority of them are from pakistan anyways. That doesn't sound to me like a militia, so hence they are a terrorist organization. Khadr involving with them therefor makes him a terrorist.

As stated above, Khadr isn't even from Afghanistan. Canadian born and family from Egypt. This is a religious thing. Also if Britain ever got invaded, sure I'd like to help them out. By that standard, I'd join the military and hope Canada decided to help Britain. I wouldn't fly over there and let's say, join the IRA and plant IED's all over Britain that mostly kill Britains rather than there invaders. That shit is just stupid, atleast if your objective was the defense of Britain and it's citizens. As I hardly see doing a better job at killing Britains than there enemy is classified as defending Britain, just like what the Taliban is doing in Afghanistan.

Sorry to sidetrack the discussion for a bit, but what I understand is you would not join a foriegn army to fight for them, like your example if britain got invaded you would join the Canadian army and hoped Canada deploys you there right ?

Then in your view, what would you call a person of country A joining the army of country B to fight country C ?

[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

Thanos Thanos:

It's more that this family of terrorists is allowed to claim Canadian citizenship that seems to bother most of us. As far as I'm concerned, the value of Canadian citizenship is greatly cheapened by having to share it with the Khadrs.

These people are evil terrorist scum. They simply should not be allowed to call themselves Canadians.

That's how I see it - he's no more a murderer than any soldier. He was a soldier for the team he chose to fight for. For that, he should have been a pow and been released at some point. Certainly not tortured.

But, I'm not crazy at all about him being in Canada. If we would find a way to revoke his citizenship, or even put him on trial for being a traitor, I would be all for it. Surely we would have put a German-Canadian on trial for treason if you chose to fight for Germany in WWII.

But we've gotta play by our laws, whatever they are. If we start making exceptions for people who we don't like, ie act outside the law, that's not a state we want to live in. What if one day the state decides not to like you? So unless we can charge him (unlikely) or revoke his citizenship (impossible) we're going to have him back. And once he's freed, if the police are too intrusive in watching him, he'll have a legal case for persecution. I hope CSIS are up to the job tho.

It's not even worth arguing with somebody who thinks like this.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Demian_164 Demian_164:

Thanos Thanos:

It's more that this family of terrorists is allowed to claim Canadian citizenship that seems to bother most of us. As far as I'm concerned, the value of Canadian citizenship is greatly cheapened by having to share it with the Khadrs.

These people are evil terrorist scum. They simply should not be allowed to call themselves Canadians.

agreed. but this we brought on ourselves, we cant simply forget about them now. they are as canadian as any of us.

Who is this fucking "we" yer talking about? One person unilaterally decided to rescue a known terrorist from prison and bring him back here so he could indoctrinate his kids in the subject of islamic terrorism under the protective umbrella of Liberalism!

[andyt]

Chretien didn't bring Khadr senior back to Canada. Khadr stayed in Pastan along with Omar and the girls. But the reason we own this guy is because we let this family into Canada in the first place to become Canadians. With our open immigration policy and all.

[DrCaleb]

desertdude desertdude:

Sorry to sidetrack the discussion for a bit, but what I understand is you would not join a foriegn army to fight for them, like your example if britain got invaded you would join the Canadian army and hoped Canada deploys you there right ?

Then in your view, what would you call a person of country A joining the army of country B to fight country C ?

If A and B are allies, and A and C are enemies, why not? Canadians join the US forces, and Brit forces and vice-versa on a regular basis.

[desertdude]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

desertdude desertdude:

Sorry to sidetrack the discussion for a bit, but what I understand is you would not join a foriegn army to fight for them, like your example if britain got invaded you would join the Canadian army and hoped Canada deploys you there right ?

Then in your view, what would you call a person of country A joining the army of country B to fight country C ?

If A and B are allies, and A and C are enemies, why not? Canadians join the US forces, and Brit forces and vice-versa on a regular basis.

So then were is the problem here. In a very simplified version OK is just another "soilder" on the side of his allies.

*I'm not going into details or passing comment on the actual thread topic. Just trying to figure out No9's logic.

[EyeBrock]

Canadians, Brits, Aussies, Yanks, Kiwis have all been fighting on the same side for nearly hundred years now.

All those countries have formal exchange programs where soldiers/sailors/airmen/women from one country serve with the other.

Canadians have a long history of serving with the US, most notably many Canadian Aboriginals join the USMC. Brits/Aussies/Kiwis have been in and out of each others Forces for decades.

Try another example to illustrate your point.

[martin14]

He wasnt a soldier DD, thats the issue here.


Not as GC defines it.

[desertdude]

martin14 martin14:

He wasnt a soldier DD, thats the issue here.


Not as GC defines it.

Martin for all the people on this forum your the first one to denounce the UN/International courts/International law etc etc.

So you either are for it or against it. You just can't choose to choose to use/apply it when you feel like it or when it suits you.