[martin14]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

So you want something the NDP has done in recent history? This is it.

Ignore previous legislation and increase taxes ?

Gotcha

[Winnipegger]

Ok, that was long. I'll pull a couple sentences from my last post:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

In 2013 they increased the PST from 7% to 8%. ... And what was this hike for? The first thing they did was increase their own salaries: Premier, provincial cabinet ministers, MLAs, and senior bureaucrats including judges.

[Mowich]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Two further things come to mind as I ponder the election results...

I will always think of Stephen Harper as the poor man's John Diefenbaker.

Dief the Chief, as he's fondly recalled, came into office with big plans, most of which he never really achieved. However, he represented a lot of frustration and alienation with Liberal arrogance, and while he didn't succeed at his bigger goals he did some excellent work on various bread-and-butter issues, especially ones of interest to Western Canadians, such as agricultural reform, the National Oil Program and opening up Red China as a market for Canadian wheat. He also gave Aboriginal peoples the vote without forcing them to give up their Treaty rights, something that came 93 years too late but was a long overdue gesture.

Similarly, Harper rode into office on a wave of anger at the Liberals, and acting on Western alienation. Like the Chief before him, Harper did some very fine work on various bread-and-butter issues, including killing the long gun registry, legislating the gas tax fund for infrastructure and initiating Tax Free Savings Accounts. However, in the end Harper failed to achieve a lot of his larger goals-he failed to establish the Conservatives as the natural governing party for Canada, and he largely failed to change the Canadian mindset on taxes, markets and mutual support, as evidenced by the things he did to try and stay in office and the views expressed even by Western Canadians, that I've noted in my rebuttal to John Ibbitson's analysis about the Laurentian Consensus.

The key difference between Diefenbaker and Harper is that Diefenbaker did not royally piss off large segments of the population the same way Harper has. While Western alienation eased off under Harper, Eastern alienation simply took its place, as some of Harper's supporters expressed the same arrogant, condescending attitude towards people east of Ontario that some Liberal supporters extended to people west of Ontario. Harper's personal political style, his ruthless control-freak image and the impression he gave that he would hate you on a personal level if you dared to so much as question him angered a lot of the very same people he needed to accomplish his agenda, such as those Canadians who would have pipelines pass through their territories. Even Preston Manning commented on how alienation was heading east on Harper's watch.

In the process, Harper adopted some of the worst traits of the Liberals he fought so hard against, something Diefenbaker, for all his warts, never really did.

Excellent post.

[redhatmamma]

The best I can say today is that we are now governed by a kakistocracy. It will be interesting to watch as the 'agents of change' come discover what the term means.

[martin14]

redhatmamma redhatmamma:

The best I can say today is that we are now governed by a kakistocracy.

The ones who produce the most kaka ?

[N_Fiddledog]

[smorgdonkey]

The people calling in on CPAC are hilarious.

One woman from Grande Prairie going on and on about how Justin Trudeau will do the same thing that the National Energy Program did.

Another idiot in Ontario who said he was 'from the West' and hated that his Trudeau paycheck had all of the taxes and was angry that it would be that way again. He was cut off because of profanity I think but I couldn't quite make it out. frothing lunatic.

It's like these people don't remember Mulroney, Cretien, Martin or Harper. Get your tinfoil hats out people.

[JaredMilne]

andyt andyt:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/20/2015-federal-election-results-by-province-gender_n_8338574.html

We look very much like Quebec. Switch cons and dips and we look very much like Ontario. You're confusing large geographic areas with population. We have more Libs than any other party.

Ont and Que also have a rural urban split - noting to do with "the West".

martin14 martin14:

But it looks like it has changed. It used to be an East - West thing, even Harper needed
seats in Ontario to win.
Trudeau I used to win with Ontario, Quebec, and Atlantic Canada, and no urban support in the West.
Trudeau II won the city vote across the country, but not much outside that, except the Atlantic.

Good points, and related ones, too. And it's important to remember that the West isn't a homogenous bloc, and that the different provinces obviously have different interests-but that doesn't mean they don't have common ones too sometimes.

However, it does raise the question-how do we continue to make rural Canadians feel like they have a voice in Canada, and to avoid the urban/rural alienation problems Individualist described? Otherwise, we end up with the same acrimony and contempt between people depending on whether they live in the city or smaller rural communities...which is no better than regional alienation.

And if things go pear-shaped for Trudeau, and he has to choose between his supporters in B.C. and Alberta and in Ontario and the East, and isn't able to reconcile them, will he be able to resist favouring them over us? Roger Gibbins-himself a born and raised British Columbian-notes that the core of his base is in the urban areas of the larger cities like Toronto.

But you know what?

I hope I'm wrong in my concerns.

I hope that Trudeau lives up to his promises on C-51, on the TPP, on balancing the concerns of Alberta and B.C. with those of other parts of the country. I hope that Trudeau can build that larger, pan-Canadian consensus that can break down the alienation and leeriness people in different parts of the country feel, and that he avoids the urban/rural split that Individualist expressed his concern about.

If he does prove to be such a Canadian leader, then so much the better.

[BRAH]

fifeboy fifeboy:

BRAH BRAH:

What's Comrade Chow going to do now?

Well there ya go, feel better now? That's about as useful as me showing the Stevo pic in the leather vest and cowboy hat and saying: "I hear there's a new Howdie Doodie movie coming out so we know what Harper will be doing!" Im sure both Chow and Harper will do fine, You,,,not so much.

Whatever, I didn't run on the name of my dead spouse losing two times.

[fifeboy]

BRAH BRAH:

fifeboy fifeboy:

BRAH BRAH:

What's Comrade Chow going to do now?

Well there ya go, feel better now? That's about as useful as me showing the Stevo pic in the leather vest and cowboy hat and saying: "I hear there's a new Howdie Doodie movie coming out so we know what Harper will be doing!" Im sure both Chow and Harper will do fine, You,,,not so much.

Whatever, I didn't run on the name of my dead spouse losing two times.

How common do you think running "on the dead spouse's name " is?

[N_Fiddledog]

Just for fun wanna see what the American New Right is saying about "this Justin Trudeau guy?"

Actually Steven Crowder grew up in Quebec, but Dana doesn't know much about Canada. She's always interested, but we seem to baffle her.

They're both well known to the American conservative movement that is not establishment GOP. Kind of stars even.

Not to convince you of anything, but just so you know.

[xerxes]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I was wondering how long it would take Ezra to uncurl himself from the fetal position and stop sucking his thumb....

[xerxes]

[herbie]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Just for fun wanna see what the American New Right is saying about "this Justin Trudeau guy?"

Actually Steven Crowder grew up in Quebec, but Dana doesn't know much about Canada. She's always interested, but we seem to baffle her.

They're both well known to the American conservative movement that is not establishment GOP. Kind of stars even.

Not to convince you of anything, but just so you know.

Grew up in Canada, eh? That means he not as stupid as he sounds, he actually knows he's lying through his teeth.

[Thanos]

Very few of the pundits from either side really believe in what they're saying. It's just a paid position. Cheerleading for the team, enforcing the us vs them mentality, and anger - mongering is all any of their bullshit amounts to.