[Newsbot]

Title: McGuinty off track: Redford
Category: Provincial Politics
Posted By: Alta_redneck
Date: 2012-02-27 17:28:05
Canadian

[saturn_656]

Our genius premier strikes again. Buggering the oil sands to try and revive the manufacturing sector is not in the cards.

[Unsound]

Typical easterner.

Maybe not quite, but near enough to show why westerners feel pushed into the outsider role so often. This is why first the reform and now the conservative party gets such support here. We know the liberal party won't stand up for us, so we vote for the guys that we think might.

[BeaverFever]

Gosh, who does this Mcguinty guy think he is, a Premier of Ontario of something? I thought Canada replaced all those with Premiers of Alberta!

[eureka]

Unsound Unsound:

Typical easterner.

Maybe not quite, but near enough to show why westerners feel pushed into the outsider role so often. This is why first the reform and now the conservative party gets such support here. We know the liberal party won't stand up for us, so we vote for the guys that we think might.

And your interest is merely in electing a National government that "will stand up" for you? What happened to Harper's " who stands for Canada?

McGuinty is absolutely correct and it is about time it was brought onto the political open. Some of us have been saying it for several years as manufacturing jobs disappeared in Ontario particularly, in the hundreds of thousands. Apart from the reality that a true deve;opment programme of alternative energy would creat many times the number of jobs all across Canada: permanent jobs.

Not that it will matter in a few years. The oil sands will be dead in the water and the pipelines will be White Elephants. If Alberta does not start using its serendipitous wealth to rapidly diversify its economy it will be in serious trouble. The world will not tolerate the wilful and indiscriminate development of more fossil fuels.

The reckoning will not be many years away.

[Gunnair]

Enjoy being the English speaking Quebec...

[Caelon]

I heard this on the radio today and thaought TWIT

If he had a half a brain he would realize the time of the 62 cent collar was a recipe for future oblivion. It bread inefficiency and a non competitive industry that could only survive on a subsidy. Level the playing field with a dollar at par and the truth comes to rest. Now Ontario has closed manufacturing facilities because they forgot to remember nothing stays constant. They should have invested in new equipment, improved efficiencies, etc so when conditions changed they would still be competitive.

A par dollar will improve Ontario in the long run. When they get themselves into a position to compete at current excahnge levels they will be able to clean house as the US dolar rises once again.

Of course McGuinty can continue with his tax and spend policies and look for someone to pull his have not province out of the hole he dug.

[eureka]

Caelon Caelon:

I heard this on the radio today and thaought TWIT

If he had a half a brain he would realize the time of the 62 cent collar was a recipe for future oblivion. It bread inefficiency and a non competitive industry that could only survive on a subsidy. Level the playing field with a dollar at par and the truth comes to rest. Now Ontario has closed manufacturing facilities because they forgot to remember nothing stays constant. They should have invested in new equipment, improved efficiencies, etc so when conditions changed they would still be competitive.

A par dollar will improve Ontario in the long run. When they get themselves into a position to compete at current excahnge levels they will be able to clean house as the US dolar rises once again.

Of course McGuinty can continue with his tax and spend policies and look for someone to pull his have not province out of the hole he dug.

Would you prefer a spend and not tax Libertarian anarchist (Harper) to a tax and spend Liberal? That is a particularly silly meme put out by Reform initially as an pretext for principled policy, by the way. Nobody with an ounce of political savvy uses it or is impressed by it.

McGuinty has not said anything about a 62 cent dollar. He does not want one and nobody in his right mind does.

That said, the Canadian dollar is artificially high: inflated by commodity trade that is largely oil over the past decade or so. That hurts Ontario most as the economic engine of the country. It brings money to Alberta but it will de3vastate it in the long term.

It is the "Dutch disease" as it came to be known.

And Ontario is not a "Have not" Province. It is one only because of a skewed equalization system. Ontario contributes the Lion's share of Ottawa's revenues.

[Caelon]

eureka eureka:

Unsound Unsound:

Typical easterner.

Maybe not quite, but near enough to show why westerners feel pushed into the outsider role so often. This is why first the reform and now the conservative party gets such support here. We know the liberal party won't stand up for us, so we vote for the guys that we think might.

And your interest is merely in electing a National government that "will stand up" for you? What happened to Harper's " who stands for Canada?

McGuinty is absolutely correct and it is about time it was brought onto the political open. Some of us have been saying it for several years as manufacturing jobs disappeared in Ontario particularly, in the hundreds of thousands. Apart from the reality that a true deve;opment programme of alternative energy would creat many times the number of jobs all across Canada: permanent jobs.

Not that it will matter in a few years. The oil sands will be dead in the water and the pipelines will be White Elephants. If Alberta does not start using its serendipitous wealth to rapidly diversify its economy it will be in serious trouble. The world will not tolerate the wilful and indiscriminate development of more fossil fuels.

The reckoning will not be many years away.

Are you really that out of touch with reality?

Read Unsound's post again then read your first paragraph and see who is looking at regional economics. Past Liberal governments were regional powers based in eastern Canada with economic policies that favoured one region at the expense of the rest of Canada. Conservative governments with a Western power base have been more national in focus. They cannot afford to tick of the mass of voters in the east and at the same time they cannot discriminate against the west. A more balanced approach than Liberal governments in the past 40 years.

As for your second paragraph you missed the big picture on economics and fell into the 'gain for today at the expense of tomorrow' trap. McGuinty has not done Ontario any favours. If you believe McGuinty is correct it calls into question your ability for critical thought.

Before you believe the oil sands and the pipelines will be white elephants in a few perhaps you should check on the estimated years of reserves and compare that to other oil producing sites. I have been hearing some idiot telling us we will run out of oil in the next 10 years since 1970. They all made the mistake of looking backwards and not forwards as far as new exploration and technology making forecasts on increasing demand and static supply. So 40 years later we have large reserves of unconventional crude, horizontal drilling, technology that has rejuvinated old sites and on a on. New energy sources will continue to grow, but oil will dominate the energy markets for at least the next 30 years and possibly quite aways beyond that.

[Caelon]

eureka eureka:

Would you prefer a spend and not tax Libertarian anarchist (Harper) to a tax and spend Liberal? That is a particularly silly meme put out by Reform initially as an pretext for principled policy, by the way. Nobody with an ounce of political savvy uses it or is impressed by it.

McGuinty has not said anything about a 62 cent dollar. He does not want one and nobody in his right mind does.

That said, the Canadian dollar is artificially high: inflated by commodity trade that is largely oil over the past decade or so. That hurts Ontario most as the economic engine of the country. It brings money to Alberta but it will de3vastate it in the long term.

Please read the posts again and discover why Ontatio is NOT the economic engine of Canada. It is the economy of the western provinces. The artificial subsidy of the undervalued currency helped create Ontario's current mess

eureka eureka:

And Ontario is not a "Have not" Province. It is one only because of a skewed equalization system. Ontario contributes the Lion's share of Ottawa's revenues

So now that Ontario has their hand out to the transfer payment trough the definition of a have not province has changed????? I guess Saskatchewan was not a have not in the past nor were any of the Atlantic provinces. They were just victims of skewed equalization payments.

Take a look at the per capita dollars in transfer payments and tell me which province give the most and which provinces receive the most per capita.

[1Peg]

eureka eureka:

Not that it will matter in a few years. The oil sands will be dead in the water and the pipelines will be White Elephants. If Alberta does not start using its serendipitous wealth to rapidly diversify its economy it will be in serious trouble. The world will not tolerate the wilful and indiscriminate development of more fossil fuels.

The reckoning will not be many years away.

The oil sands proven reserve is worth 17.5 trillion....
If Shell Canada is correct, they say the oil sands contain up to 4-6 trillion barrels..... National Geographic estimated the entire oil sands project to be worth 80-100 TRILLION.... With a T....

Do you honestly believe for one second that were just going to let that oil sit here?

[CDN_PATRIOT]

eureka eureka:

And Ontario is not a "Have not" Province. It is one only because of a skewed equalization system.

\

Ontario has been a 'have not' province for some time, not so much because of the equalization payments, but mostly due to the fiscal irresponsibility of the McGuinty government. He almost singlehandedly mismanaged us from 'have' to 'have not', and doesn't mind giving it to us up the rear in new taxes to pay for his expenditures that we as a whole cannot afford.

But seeing as you are a diehard fan and voted him back in, you like bending over and taking it more than the rest of us.

-J.

[eureka]

You need to not read the posts and garner a little information a little information before puffing the Alberta chest.

Ontario is undeniably the economic engine of Canada and it s foolish to claim otherwise. with almost 40% of the population and the majority of Canada's manufacturing as well as the Financial hub of the country.

and that will not change.

The dollar is, as I said, artificially high. It is high only because of unstable commodity prices. And, transfer payments are not all that Provinces send to Ottawa. Ontario pays a disproportionate share of federal taxes.

The bits about "National" government are pure nonsense. Firewall Harper against every Premier of Ontario except Harris. Ontario has since Confederation been known as the broker of National Unity.

The only time that the "West" loosely defined was actually a willing contributor to National Unity and identity was under Diefenbaker. Ever since the bounty of oil dollars it has assumed a superiority hat is illusory. Much of that was developed with Ontario money, btw.

Also, a rereading of what I wrote about the oil sands would not hurt you. At least I don't think it would since it should not be too difficult to understand. I said nothing about running out of oil in any time frame - obviously there is one. I wrote that the world would find a way to do without oil in the not too distant future and the pipelines and the sands will be a bust.

That is inevitable.

If your region developed a litle humility, it would act as I suggested and use its windfall for development that has nothing to do with fossil fuels before it is too late.

[Gunnair]

Take away the equalization payments from the powerhouse and see what happens.

[Yogi]

eureka eureka:

You need to not read the posts and garner a little information a little information before puffing the Alberta chest.

Ontario is undeniably the economic engine of Canada and it s foolish to claim otherwise. with almost 40% of the population and the majority of Canada's manufacturing as well as the Financial hub of the country.

and that will not change.

The dollar is, as I said, artificially high. It is high only because of unstable commodity prices. And, transfer payments are not all that Provinces send to Ottawa. Ontario pays a disproportionate share of federal taxes.

The bits about "National" government are pure nonsense. Firewall Harper against every Premier of Ontario except Harris. Ontario has since Confederation been known as the broker of National Unity.

The only time that the "West" loosely defined was actually a willing contributor to National Unity and identity was under Diefenbaker. Ever since the bounty of oil dollars it has assumed a superiority hat is illusory. Much of that was developed with Ontario money, btw.

Also, a rereading of what I wrote about the oil sands would not hurt you. At least I don't think it would since it should not be too difficult to understand. I said nothing about running out of oil in any time frame - obviously there is one. I wrote that the world would find a way to do without oil in the not too distant future and the pipelines and the sands will be a bust.

That is inevitable.

If your region developed a litle humility, it would act as I suggested and use its windfall for development that has nothing to do with fossil fuels before it is too late.

Thank-you so much for setting us straight on this matter. So where's the fucking beef???