[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

He complained about the income inequality between the middle class and the rich. When I brought up the income inequality between the middle class and poor, he said the poor want a helping hand, but don't deserve one. How is it any different him wanting this same helping hand, ie less income inequality between himself and the rich? He obviously wants a helping hand to do something about it.

I didn't complain about the inequality between classes, I simply answered the threat title - Do the rich pay enough?

My opinion is no.

[andyt]

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

The discussion is minimum wages.

Actually, the discussion was about whether or not the rich pay enough, but as usual, you derailed it with your, "we should pay people a living wage" complaints.

You eagerly took up the discussion about the gini index and income inequality. I pointed out that to complain about inequality but not for the lowest paid workers is hypocritical.

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

How is paying them a better wage a helping hand (ie welfare) but paying middle class workers a better wage relative to the rich just something that's deserved? If he doesn't like his income relative to people who make more, I could just as easily say to him he should get better training or work two jobs, just as he's saying to those who make less than him.

Which is exactly what I did. I stopped working two minimum wage jobs, got an education and now make three-four times what I did 20 years ago.

FYI, I'm not unhappy with my current earning. Sure I would like 6 figures, and if I was willing to move elsewhere and work 80 hours a week, I could get it. I simply choose family over money. In time, as I gain experience, my earnings will increase. On the side, I write novels and short stories and, who knows, maybe someday that will pay the bills. If not, it's better that than working at a convenience store or gas station - which I did up until I finished my Master's degree in 2010.

But everything I have today is because I worked for it - not because the government gave me a handout. Which is obviously something you'll never understand...

How is a better min wage a govt handout? How is asking the rich to pay more so you don't have to any less of a handout?

[BartSimpson]

Andy's problems are multi-faceted and I'll try to list them in a logical order;

1. Andy assumes that anyone in a low paying job will remain in that job for all the rest of their lives. For most people such jobs are just a way station on the road to something better.

2. Andy assumes that while there are disparities in income that there are no corresponding disparities in individual talent, individual skill, and individual dedication. It isn't enough for Andy that people should have equal opportunities, he also wants equal outcomes.

3. Andy's persistent and deliberate ignorance of how actual economies function reveals itself over and over as he bleats for increased minimum wages in the utterly naive assumption that this will increase purchasing power.

4. Andy doth complaineth too much.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

The discussion is minimum wages.

Actually, the discussion was about whether or not the rich pay enough, but as usual, you derailed it with your, "we should pay people a living wage" complaints.

You eagerly took up the discussion about the gini index and income inequality. I pointed out that to complain about inequality but not for the lowest paid workers is hypocritical.

Please find one quote of mine where I even mention the Gini Index. You can't, because I never have mentioned it for the simple reason that I don't really know much about it.

The thread was originally about whether or not the rich pay enough. On the first page, I said;

bootlegga bootlegga:

No, they don't.

andyt andyt:

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

How is paying them a better wage a helping hand (ie welfare) but paying middle class workers a better wage relative to the rich just something that's deserved? If he doesn't like his income relative to people who make more, I could just as easily say to him he should get better training or work two jobs, just as he's saying to those who make less than him.

Which is exactly what I did. I stopped working two minimum wage jobs, got an education and now make three-four times what I did 20 years ago.

FYI, I'm not unhappy with my current earning. Sure I would like 6 figures, and if I was willing to move elsewhere and work 80 hours a week, I could get it. I simply choose family over money. In time, as I gain experience, my earnings will increase. On the side, I write novels and short stories and, who knows, maybe someday that will pay the bills. If not, it's better that than working at a convenience store or gas station - which I did up until I finished my Master's degree in 2010.

But everything I have today is because I worked for it - not because the government gave me a handout. Which is obviously something you'll never understand...

How is a better min wage a govt handout? How is asking the rich to pay more so you don't have to any less of a handout?

I never said anything about lowering middle class taxes - I said everyone should pay a fair share - which I then illustrated with Luke 21:1-4, i.e. $1000 for someone earning $20,000 per year is far more burdensome than $10,000,000 for someone earning $30,000,000.

Frankly, I'm of the opinion everyone should pay some taxes until the debt is gone.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Andy's problems are multi-faceted and I'll try to list them in a logical order;

1. Andy assumes that anyone in a low paying job will remain in that job for all the rest of their lives. For most people such jobs are just a way station on the road to something better.

2. Andy assumes that while there are disparities in income that there are no corresponding disparities in individual talent, individual skill, and individual dedication. It isn't enough for Andy that people should have equal opportunities, he also wants equal outcomes.

3. Andy's persistent and deliberate ignorance of how actual economies function reveals itself over and over as he bleats for increased minimum wages in the utterly naive assumption that this will increase purchasing power.

4. Andy doth complaineth too much.

In chess, we call that checkmate!

[andyt]

My mistake. You gave +5 to Khar's long post about inequality. Presumably that means you agree with it.

[rickc]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/which-cam ... ng-or-debt

I love how Mayor Cory Booker of Newark said last night at the DNC:"Being asked to pay your fair share is not class warfare, its patriotism". Pretty ironic seeing as how the majority of the people attending the convention probaly pay ZERO federal taxes. I wonder how many of the delegates at the convention have been bussed in from housing complexes around the States. Mayor Booker presides over a city where one third of the residents are living under the poverty level. Mind you this is not the in bred, banjo picking, Bible thumping,gun toting South that so many left wing intellectuals on this forum love to make fun of. No, this is the Northeast. That bastion of liberalism,and big government. Throw enough money at any problem,and you can solve it,right?

Fact: Every Mayor of Newark since 1962 (except Mayor Booker) has been indicted for crimes while in office. Think about that for a minute.( One would have to look at Chicago to find a more corrupt city).Kickbacks,bribes,extortion,conspiracy,fraud,mail fraud,wire fraud, TAX EVASION, its all there. All of them Democrats,every single one. Every one of them telling their citizens that they were going to fight for them. Every one of them used their position to enrich themselves,and their friends. Fuck the people. Yet the people of Newark continue to vote for the Democrats. They say you get the government you deserve. I believe that. The fact that a Mayor can bitch about the lack of tax Dollars coming into his city could be convicted of tax evasion himself, should boggle the mind. But hey, this is Newark isn't it? Just another day at the office for the big government left wingers. Its never their fault. The fact that their city is a poor,trashy, crime ridden shit hole has to be someone else's fault,does'nt it? It must be those rich ass holes across the river in Manhatten not paying enough taxes. Yeah,thats the ticket.

[Brenda]

So you are blaming Booker for what his predecessors did? And because they did, he COULD too?
Classy.

[rickc]

Brenda Brenda:

So you are blaming Booker for what his predecessors did? And because they did, he COULD too?
Classy.

Please, don't put word in my mouth.I'm saying Mayor Booker is full of shit! He has the gall to talk about people paying their FAIR SHARE of taxes, when his city is one big welfare state! His people pay almost no federal income taxes. How is that FAIR? What money is sent to the city is stolen by politicians. Those are facts! You don't have to take my word for it. Look it up yourself. His city has always been on the receiving end of federal tax Dollars. The assholes that live in the armpit that is Newark, have dragged that city into the gutter. No one else is responsible for that. All the money in the world will not save a bunch of crackheads who are used to sitting on their fat asses collecting a government check, while they get stoned. My Country has been supporting the shithole that is Newark long enough. You believe in Mayor Booker? Than you send him a check! I say fuck him! I say fuck Newark! I am tired of throwing good money after bad. I hope a majority of my countrymen see it that way as well come November. President Reagan was 10 points behind President Carter at this time in 1980. You seen how that turned out. I say hell yeah! Bring in a thousand Mayor Bookers to speak at the convention. Leftwing big government whiners looking for government handouts for thirdworld shitholes in the States, always help our cause.

[Brenda]

rickc rickc:

Brenda Brenda:

So you are blaming Booker for what his predecessors did? And because they did, he COULD too?
Classy.

Please, don't put word in my mouth.

Read back what you posted. I am not putting words in your mouth, I am making a long story short.
"All of Booker's predecessors have been indicted of some kind of crime while in office, and he is bitching while he could do the same". THAT is what you literally said.
Or am I misreading this little tidbit?

$1:

The fact that a Mayor can bitch about the lack of tax Dollars coming into his city could be convicted of tax evasion himself,

[rickc]

Brenda Brenda:

rickc rickc:

Brenda Brenda:

So you are blaming Booker for what his predecessors did? And because they did, he COULD too?
Classy.

Please, don't put word in my mouth.

Read back what you posted. I am not putting words in your mouth, I am making a long story short.
"All of Booker's predecessors have been indicted of some kind of crime while in office, and he is bitching while he could do the same". THAT is what you literally said.
Or am I misreading this little tidbit?

$1:

The fact that a Mayor can bitch about the lack of tax Dollars coming into his city could be convicted of tax evasion himself,

Ok I can see how my post could be misunderstood, as I only mentioned Mayor Booker by name. The Newark Mayor who was convicted of tax evasion was Kenneth Gibson.He made a career out of complaining about a lack of federal tax dollars coming to his city, while cheating on his own taxes himself. Thats who I was referring to. A sloppy posting job on my part. My apologies.

I still find it ironic that Newark has elected a long line of Democratic crooks, that steal from the city of Newark. Then they can send a Democratic Mayor (the first unindicted one since 1962) to the DNC to complain that somehow the Republicans are to blame for their problems.

[Brenda]

Ah, ok, I get it

It is ironic. But... I happen to like Booker.
I have to say tho, that I am so done with all the negativity. Everyone is blaming someone else, and no one is doing anything. Blaming others is easy. When you have a history like that in your city, it may not be a good idea to go to the DNC and blame "the others"... Show what you have done to change it, tell what more you are going to do, own your shit and move on.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

My mistake. You gave +5 to Khar's long post about inequality. Presumably that means you agree with it.

Sure, parts of it. It's also because I respect the effort Khar put in (effort most other posters don't).

[bootlegga]

rickc rickc:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/which-came-first-spending-or-debt

I love how Mayor Cory Booker of Newark said last night at the DNC:"Being asked to pay your fair share is not class warfare, its patriotism". Pretty ironic seeing as how the majority of the people attending the convention probaly pay ZERO federal taxes. I wonder how many of the delegates at the convention have been bussed in from housing complexes around the States. Mayor Booker presides over a city where one third of the residents are living under the poverty level. Mind you this is not the in bred, banjo picking, Bible thumping,gun toting South that so many left wing intellectuals on this forum love to make fun of. No, this is the Northeast. That bastion of liberalism,and big government. Throw enough money at any problem,and you can solve it,right?

Fact: Every Mayor of Newark since 1962 (except Mayor Booker) has been indicted for crimes while in office. Think about that for a minute.( One would have to look at Chicago to find a more corrupt city).Kickbacks,bribes,extortion,conspiracy,fraud,mail fraud,wire fraud, TAX EVASION, its all there. All of them Democrats,every single one. Every one of them telling their citizens that they were going to fight for them. Every one of them used their position to enrich themselves,and their friends. Fuck the people. Yet the people of Newark continue to vote for the Democrats. They say you get the government you deserve. I believe that. The fact that a Mayor can bitch about the lack of tax Dollars coming into his city could be convicted of tax evasion himself, should boggle the mind. But hey, this is Newark isn't it? Just another day at the office for the big government left wingers. Its never their fault. The fact that their city is a poor,trashy, crime ridden shit hole has to be someone else's fault,does'nt it? It must be those rich ass holes across the river in Manhatten not paying enough taxes. Yeah,thats the ticket.

Sorry, but that is one crazy rant.

I get people are partisan - and I can be at times too - but that is on the verge of extremism.

[Thanos]

Crooked big-city mayors and councellors in the US is a huge problem. I'm not sure though what it has to do with the wealthy and corporations demanding, through the GOP, an effective tax rate of 0%. Or with the continued illusion that more tax cuts, in a nation that's been receiving massive tax cuts for the last twelve years, is going to jump-start a badly damaged American economy.